Audiophiles - Budget / Mid Speaker Setup For Music & Theatre - ~£1000

AmDaMan

AmDaMan

AmDaMan

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Wellington, NZ
Hi - I've recentley got a taste of what an OK system can sound like and I'd like to build on that experience now with a decent setup. I'm not going to get too upset about separation, warmth or brightness or any of that bud I'd like something that does have good detail and separation for music and when watching movies. At the moment I have a Bose Soundtouch300 with surround speakers coupled with a Polk HTS-10 in a small living room with a Philips Oled 706.

Requirements;
  1. Around 1000 budget, ideally this includes the receiver but can stretch a bit more if required (Receiver needs to have HDMI arc).
  2. At minimum I'd like 2x passive bookshelf style speakers with a dedicated centre - the centre needs to be clear for dialogue (always have an issue with this in movies)
  3. Needs to work well with the Polk HTS-10 sub I've already got
  4. Future to expand to rears / atmos if possible
  5. Clear and detailed sound / mids - don't care about the bass as the sub can hopefully deal with that
  6. A nice to have would be magnetic grills as I like that look
I've looked at the following bookshelf's so far;
  1. Jamo S803
  2. Elac Debut B6.2 (maybe even the 5.2?)
  3. Q Acoustics 3020 (maybe even the 3010?)
  4. Triangle Borea BR03
The Reciever I was looking at was something like a used Sony STR-DN1080.

The Jamo's look like unbelievable value but apparently the mids aren't that good. Next would probably be the Elac's. I'm also struggling with a centre, assume it's not a good idea to mix and match?

Any help appreciated!

Cheers
 
The Sony receiver is decent. For music, I prefer it to the Denons. Yamaha is definitely worth a look, especially for music. With good speakers and running in pure direct mode the Yamaha receivers sound really good for music.

Speakers:
The Jamos are inexpensive for a reason. They're not very good, or I should say that folk who think Beats headphones are the bomb will like these speakers. Anyone who values midrange clarity, tuneful bass, and a sweet extended top end should look elsewhere. The S803s are definitely boom & tizz.

Elac and Q Acoustics are both good choices. Much of the choice will come down to what's available in your home market of NZ (if that's where you are) and whether you're looking at new or used.

The Q Acoustics 3020 have been out some time and were replaced by the updated 3020i in 2018. That should bode well for availability of second-hand speakers. The i version isn't an improvement in all areas, so don't stress about having to find that one rather than the original 3020. They're both good, and played in isolation then either set would put a smile on your face.

Q Acoustics has a range of centre speakers including the 3090c, 3090ci, and the 5090. If you really want to push the boat out, then the Concept 90 is available. Since they're all from the same brand you should be reasonably safe going up a tier or two on the centre for extra dialogue quality without upsetting the tonal balance of the front sound stage. (Simpler language: you should be able to mix and match within a brand, but don't mix fronts of one brand with a centre from another.)

Elacs Debut 6.2 are good as well. In the UK there's a reasonable selection of centre speakers from the brand. This includes the Debut 2.0 C6.2, the Debut Reference, and the Uni-Fi Reference.

How about no centre speaker, for a while at least?
An AV receiver doesn't have to have a centre channel speaker. Yes, it works better with one, but with good enough front stereo speakers and a symmetrical speaker layout the front stereo pair can image well enough to lock the dialogue in the middle where the screen is. This is called Phantom Centre Mode.

Obviously this only suits certain room layouts. If you have people sat all over the room then a dedicated centre works better. However, if just knowing about Phantom Mode opens up the possibility that you can stagger the speaker purchases - front pair first, then centre when the right deal comes along - could give you the breathing space to get a better system by playing the longer game.

Triangle speakers - Although I own French speakers myself (JM Lab / Focal), and Triangle has been making loudspeakers since the 1980s, it's not a brand that I've come across in a lot of Hi-Fi retailers. You might have better distribution in NZ.

Integrating the sub
This really shouldn't be an issue. Make sure any used AV receiver comes with its remote and the set-up mic. Borrow a tripod to get the mic at ear height when letting the Auto Wizard do its stuff. Fine tune by ear. Very few AV receivers EQ the sub. They just set the level. A bit of experimentation might be in order.
 
Awesome reply - thanks for that.

I've been having a think about some of your points;

The second hand market is useless is NZ and the selection is poor. The QA3020's though for some reason are only $400 new which is about 200gbp. I'm quite happy with that if they are good speakers.

I've also had a think about the centre speaker. I could possibly trial out the 2.1 setup - the rear speakers on the Bose definitely do add a nice dynamic to movies though.

A 2.1 setup would mean I save a headache with the Receiver as I can't get any of the receivers easily, they cost a fortune here. I have some options from the US though that I need to look into, it's far less attractive with shipping. I was reading some reviews about the Fosi Audio V3.. for the price I don't see a downside, quality components, small and seem to power small bookshelfs ok and they have a neutral sound. Then I can think about a receiver in the future.

My biggest question though is how would this work with my TV? It looks to have RCA or Toslink inputs but I'd like to still control volume with my TV. If I use a headphone out to the RCA I think that could work. However, the V3 only has a pre out for a sub.. do you know if the volume output for that will scale with the TV's volume output? If that works I could have a nice little 2.1 setup for about $500.
 
Keep what you have rather than spending out on a host of small little bookshelf speakers, with the illusion of it being an "upgrade". One place to focus your upgrade path would be selling on the Polk Sub and getting a compact 12" with EQ. Or just sell the lot and buy a newer soundbar system with ATMOS upfiring speakers in the main bar and on the surrounds.

I sold off my full 7.2 setup after moving house and grabbed a Samsung Q990b soundbar system, when they were about £600. Not missing the full setup at all (other than the 2x12" subs).

The overall cohesion of the soundbar system with upfiring speakers gives fantastic height, something which is hard to achieve with an AV setup without a lot of position tweaking and messing around with EQ. Then you'd need to plaster the ceiling with speakers or grab some upfiring ATMOS additions.
 
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AmDaMan said:
Awesome reply - thanks for that.

I've been having a think about some of your points;

The second hand market is useless is NZ and the selection is poor. The QA3020's though for some reason are only $400 new which is about 200gbp. I'm quite happy with that if they are good speakers.

I've also had a think about the centre speaker. I could possibly trial out the 2.1 setup - the rear speakers on the Bose definitely do add a nice dynamic to movies though.

A 2.1 setup would mean I save a headache with the Receiver as I can't get any of the receivers easily, they cost a fortune here. I have some options from the US though that I need to look into, it's far less attractive with shipping. I was reading some reviews about the Fosi Audio V3.. for the price I don't see a downside, quality components, small and seem to power small bookshelfs ok and they have a neutral sound. Then I can think about a receiver in the future.

My biggest question though is how would this work with my TV? It looks to have RCA or Toslink inputs but I'd like to still control volume with my TV. If I use a headphone out to the RCA I think that could work. However, the V3 only has a pre out for a sub.. do you know if the volume output for that will scale with the TV's volume output? If that works I could have a nice little 2.1 setup for about $500.
Click to expand...

The 3020 are £200/pr here too. The 3020i are £230 at the discount retailers. IMO it makes sense for a manufacturer to maintain a product line even after a replacement has come out. In this case, the 3020 is a decent speaker, and a known quantity. The 3020i is only £230/pr here, but the step down to the 3010i at £170/pr leaves a bit of a price gap that the 3020 fills quite nicely. Bringing out a new model to fill the gap between £170 and £230 would probably involve additional costs that either makes it too expensive relative to the other models, or would require cost cutting that results in a lower performance than the 3010i. It's more cost effective to keep the 3020 in the product line-up than dropping it or replacing it.

Anyway, all that aside, your plans have taken a bit of a change of direction.

The Fosi V3 is very good - especially with the 48V psu - but also very limited in connectivity. As you've realised, the amp's pre-out is simply a signal pass-thru. Regarding how the signals scale, until you try it you just won't know for sure.

Your original ideas was (I think) to get better stereo performance than the Bose sound bar, but still retain surround capabilities and aim for Atmos. The Fosi takes ou down a pure stereo route. Does your original plan still fit?
 
-Ad- said:
Keep what you have rather than spending out on a host of small little bookshelf speakers, with the illusion of it being an "upgrade". One place to focus your upgrade path would be selling on the Polk Sub and getting a compact 12" with EQ.
Click to expand...
I see what you're saying. For a theatre system, I definitely agree - the Q990B would solve most of my issues. For music though I don't think a soundbar would have the sound quality of a decent bookshelf? I could be wrong with the 990B as i've not heard it yet. I listened to a friends Sony HT-A9 and movies were superb, but his Elac Uni-Fi's sound that much better for music (to me) that i'd possibly be willing to compromise on the surround aspects, at least for a bit.

-lucid-:​

Click to expand...


I know, I think I need to make my mind up.. I think i'm willing to sacrifice the surround elements initially though for the music quality I think. The Bose sound bar had me enjoying music more and the Bookshelf's are better again from what i've heard so far. I'll have another think over the weekend and see where I land, I've got a few options on my shortlist now. Cheers!!
 
£1000 isn't a lot for Atmos avr (including the internal amp channels for those) and at least 5.1 speakers.

You could get decent second hand speaker system if you look around speakers depreciate a lot. Best you have demo of few speakers in different price ranges, brands and sizes
 
I started with a full 5.1 using the 3010 and 3090c on a 12 year old amp with an ARC adapter, for films the setup was great as it's firing from all sides but for music you'd benefit from the larger driver and cabinet the 3020 has, the 3010 would probably feel a little lost for music or just stereo sound. I upgraded my fronts to 3030i as I can't have a large sub due to being an upstairs flat and the centre to a 3090ci to help with the centre clarity, but on a blind test I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the i/non i centre without extensive testing.
 
AmDaMan said:
I see what you're saying. For a theatre system, I definitely agree - the Q990B would solve most of my issues. For music though I don't think a soundbar would have the sound quality of a decent bookshelf? I could be wrong with the 990B as i've not heard it yet. I listened to a friends Sony HT-A9 and movies were superb, but his Elac Uni-Fi's sound that much better for music (to me) that i'd possibly be willing to compromise on the surround aspects, at least for a bit.
Click to expand...

2 decent stereo front floorstanders will still win on the music front, by quite some margin. Depends on how much music you really listen to.

I have some epic standmounts and an cracking amp, but I just don't sit around and listen to music anymore. When I do listen to music, it's down the garden with the summer room doors thrown wide open, with the Samsung MS750 soundbar playing (great for music). Just wish I could find a 2nd hand wireless sub to pair with it as they are as rare as rocking horse poop.
 
I'd go for the bigger 3020
-Ad- said:
2 decent stereo front floorstanders will still win on the music front, by quite some margin. Depends on how much music you really listen to.

I have some epic standmounts and an cracking amp, but I just don't sit around and listen to music anymore. When I do listen to music, it's down the garden with the summer room doors thrown wide open, with the Samsung MS750 soundbar playing (great for music). Just wish I could find a 2nd hand wireless sub to pair with it as they are as rare as rocking horse poop.
Click to expand...

Rel/SVS wireless sub TX/RX sub with any regular sub. done
 
It's a shame your used market isn't great. I got a pair of Wharfdale Evo 4.2 ex-demo for £350 and a Evo 4.C centre speaker s/h as new for £300. Fantastic sound for the money.
 
Hi - update!

I've got the following on the way;

An almost new Sony STR-DH790 (£200)
Klipsch RP-160M (£350)

I was thinking about the speakers for ages then got bored. I nearly got a set of Sony SS-CS5's but by the time I had imported those they were £250, so I'm hoping the Klipsch are a decent step up. From what i'm reading they aren't as bright, they are older speakers though from their lineup. Quite similar to the RP600M apparently (no idea what that means).

Either way I have a feeling it's the Sony Receiver that will be the bottleneck on them - might still get a separate compact amp for some higher quality listening sessions, haven't decided yet!

Cheers
 
Not for a while now - people always talk about them being bright but back when I had a listen I thought they sounded fine (this was a few years ago now). If they sound a bit rubbish I'll take them back and swap them out for the 3020's (which I haven't heard either). The 160's were supposed to be more neutral through from what i've read.
 
Maybe good idea to have warm and neutral speaker.

You may find a bright speaker has initial wow factor but you could tire after a while, and become unpleasant. Try a pair of Wharfedale for softer sound, and Q Acounstic for middle ground pleasant neutral.
 
I had a pair of wharfedale 220C and for the price they were hands down the best speakers I have heard. Can’t get the centre channel any more though. Ended up upgrading to the 4.1 evo’s and to my ears they are not much better but three times the cost.
 
I've spent a bit of time with the RP-160M's now and they really are superb. There's a dip in the 1.9KHz range that I've corrected with the EQ and I can't fault them at all. I was actually disappointed initially because through the Sony DH790 they didn't sound that good (apart from movies).

Using a Fosi BT20A amp with a Flac they sound incredible. Makes me wonder how good they'd sound with an expensive amp.. The bass is also that good that I don't need the sub for music, but I've kept it for movies. Happy with the setup so far, cheers!
 
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