Auriol Grey - Manslaughter conviction overturned

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www.bbc.co.uk

Auriol Grey has cyclist manslaughter conviction overturned

Auriol Grey's family say they are relieved her ordeal is now over following the Appeal Court ruling.
www.bbc.co.uk


Quite rightly so.

I think almost everyone would tell a cyclist riding towards them to get off the pavement.

The only real offence that lead to the death of Celia Ward was that of riding a bicycle on a pavement, an offence committed by Ms Ward.
 
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what happened, told her to get off the pavement or forced her off the road into oncoming traffic.

i have not seen the footage so dont know.
 
dave28 said:
what happened, told her to get off the pavement or forced her off the road into oncoming traffic.

i have not seen the footage so dont know.
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Here you go:



Looks very deliberate to me, the rate at which Ward changed direction wasn't an oopsy, it was a shove. Grey's reaction to her cycling on the pavement wasn't exactly calm either.


Tricky one tbh, Ward shouldn't have been on the pavement and Grey's reaction was clearly overblown. Had there not been any approaching traffic this would've been a few scrapes and bruises but instead it's a fatality. This is one of those instances which will have very vocal opinions on both sides and nobody will ever agree.
 
dave28 said:
what happened, told her to get off the pavement or forced her off the road into oncoming traffic.

i have not seen the footage so dont know.
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Grey shouted at Ward to "get off the ****** pavement". Ward then swerved into the road and was struck by an oncoming vehicle. There was no physical contact reported between the two involved.
 
Resident said:
Grey shouted at Ward to "get off the ****** pavement". Ward then swerved into the road and was struck by an oncoming vehicle. There was no physical contact reported between the two involved.
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Maybe there was no physical contact but, would Ward have fallen into the road without Grey's actions?
 
Diddums said:
Looks very deliberate to me, the rate at which Ward changed direction wasn't an oopsy, it was a shove. Grey's reaction to her cycling on the pavement wasn't exactly calm either.
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I agree. Part of the issue here is a failure by the prosecutor - they didn't prove a "base offence", like if Celia Ward hadn't died then would there be a case to answer for assault? Well maybe but the prosecution didn't prove the assault (the base case) so the manslaughter conviction was dodgy.

Resident said:
Grey shouted at Ward to "get off the ****** pavement". Ward then swerved into the road and was struck by an oncoming vehicle. There was no physical contact reported between the two involved.
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That's not so clear - it seems quite plausible that there was from the CCTV - the big failure here was the prosecutor not making the case that there was an assault or other unlawful act - by not doing that the manslaughter conviction can't follow.

They can't just say a hostile gesture was sufficient as an offence, as the appeal court pointed out then you'd be prosecuting football fans all the time etc.

Personally, I think she went a bit beyond just a gesture and IMO she was vindictive, assaulted a woman (either made contact or attempted to) and caused her death ergo she deserved to be locked up.
 
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If that had been a 5 year old child on the bike I think public sentiment would be quite a bit different.

Ayahuasca said:
Probably the right decision in the end but that woman still comes across thoroughly repugnant with her actions on the day.
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Totally agree, the only plus side is that tax payer's money is no longer being used keeping her in prison.
 
Diddums said:
Here you go:



Looks very deliberate to me, the rate at which Ward changed direction wasn't an oopsy, it was a shove. Grey's reaction to her cycling on the pavement wasn't exactly calm either.


Tricky one tbh, Ward shouldn't have been on the pavement and Grey's reaction was clearly overblown. Had there not been any approaching traffic this would've been a few scrapes and bruises but instead it's a fatality. This is one of those instances which will have very vocal opinions on both sides and nobody will ever agree.
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well the pedestrian seemed to have room to move over, maybe not required to by law but it looks to me like she gave no options to the cyclist except slam into me, the metal fence or onto the road. She picked the road and died. The other two options and she would have lived.
 
What a shame the cctv wasn't aimed another 6 foot to the right. It looks remarkably like she shoved her.
And for all you mouth breathing cyclist haters out there, cycling on pavements is an offence but one in which the police can use discretion in enforcing. Clearly in this case, a pensioner riding slowly on the pavement to avoid traffic on the road isn't quite the same thing as a teenager popping wheelies up the main highstreet and putting pedestrians in jeapordy. I hope this woman feels a crushing sense of guilt for the rest of her life but somehow I doubt she will. Justice pffft.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Probably the right decision in the end but that woman still comes across thoroughly repugnant with her actions on the day.
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I have far more experience with people with this type of mental condition than any person should, not without being paid anyway. They are indeed generally repugnant, hateful, vile people and will often go out of their way to make a point. Sadly it's not just them being cranky, it's legit mental conditions that cause them to behave like this.
 
Diddums said:
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Residem said:
What a shame the cctv wasn't aimed another 6 foot to the right. It looks remarkably like she shoved her.
And for all you mouth breathing cyclist haters out there, cycling on pavements is an offence but one in which the police can use discretion in enforcing. Clearly in this case, a pensioner riding slowly on the pavement to avoid traffic on the road isn't quite the same thing as a teenager popping wheelies up the main highstreet and putting pedestrians in jeapordy. I hope this woman feels a crushing sense of guilt for the rest of her life but somehow I doubt she will. Justice pffft.
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lol
 
Diddums said:
No need to get so abrasive about it though, I think this is a fairly reasoned discussion at this point.

That said, if you're a fly attracted to turds, you must feel like a pig in **** in GD :D
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Sorry, people just really grind my gears sometimes. GD and other similar forum areas on other sites are generally where I go when I start reflecting on my life and if it's reasonable for me to be such a misanthrope. It always reassures me that I'm not being unreasonable.
 
Tough one, wouldn't like to be on the jury for that!

Ultimately I would agree that it was correct to overturn the decision as it's a difficult one to call and I would lean towards keeping someone out of prison in situations where it's difficult to call.

Obviously I am not a lawyer and I don't know the ins and outs of the laws surrounding it so the above is just my uninformed opinion.
 
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