AV Receiver or Hi-Fi amp? Help!

lisali

lisali

lisali

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17 Oct 2014
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17
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, and I landed here after researching AV receivers. Here's my story:

For years, I had a Kenwood 5.1 surround system, which worked great - fast to switch on/off, no fan noise, great sound. Then it started making satanic, screeching noises so it had to go.

I though about getting an all-in-one system with a DVD/Blu-Ray player, so I tried models from LG, Sony and Samsung. While these are all supposed to be modern devices, I'm shocked at how slow they are to switch on an off, and especially by HOW MUCH NOISE THEY MAKE. They sound like they are churning something all the time. They are buggy, unresponsive at times and just plain annoying. The sound they produce is OK.

Someone suggested I get an amp or an AV receiver instead, as that was what my Kenwood kind of was - although it had a built-in CD/DVD player. Now, to be honest, I am not an expert in this field, and I'm not 100% sure what the difference between an amp an an AV receiver is, but I know what I want. That is:

- Fast to switch on/off
- NO FAN NOISE


I do not really watch DVDs much. I listen to music and watch a lot of high-definition TV shows, either as MKVs or streaming. My living room is small, and all five speakers would be placed next to the TV. I'm getting Amazon Fire TV soon.

I'd love to hear what you'd suggest for me, and what you'd choose in my situation and why. I need good sound, and I need it fast!

Thank you! ☺
 
A stand alone AMP (or amplifier) will typically take audio output from your devices (optical, phono cables etc) and amplify the signal so that it can be used with a set of unpowered speakers.

Using your amplifier you can select which source (optical 1,2 or 3, phono etc) that you wish to be amplified and played through your speakers.

You likely do NOT want this as these devices typically cater towards audiophiles that have audio only devices.


An AV receiver (or audio/visual receiver) is takes a variety of audio and video sources (optical, phono, HDMI) and in addition to switching between the audio inputs, allow you to switch video inputs and pass it to an HDMI out on the amp.

AV receivers in their simplest form usually act as an HDMI switch and can pass through the audio, via HDMI, to your TV. The benefit is that an AV receiver will include a built in amplifier that can be used to power dedicated speakers.

This is what you want. An AV receiver.


If you're used to the sound from all in one systems you'll likely get away with an AV receiver in the £250 bracket and stand alone speakers of a similar price range for five.

The addition of a sub woofer will give you the extra 0.1 (or 5.1 sound in total) and might be a good choice if you're getting lower end/smaller speakers.

SuperFi, Richer Sounds do "separates bundles" which will likely impress no end and fit all your needs.


It should be noted that as AV receivers do not "boot" up an interface their switch on times are only about 5 or 6 seconds to warm up, are instant off and (due to the fact they have a larger form factor) I've never seen one that makes ANY noise as they never have fans.

P.S. AV Receivers are usually quite large, if you're looking for a smaller unit (in height) look at the Marantz "Slim Line" range. It's never going to be a small as your "all in one" units but it will fit in a non "entertainment" style cabinet.
 
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Yeah I don't see the point in 5.1 it ALL the speakers in sitting by the tv. with your space constraints i'd be looking at the onkyo classic ........

Onkyo HT-X22HDX 3D Ready Ultra Compact 2.1 Home Cinema

its also upgradable to 5.1 in the future
 
If you were happy with the sound that an all-in-one produced(!) then an AV receiver should knock your socks off whether in stereo speaker config or full on surround. All-in-ones tend to be at the bottom of the heap for fidelity. Pure 2ch hi-fi amps are at the top, but they lack the convenience features of digital inputs and audio decoding. An AV receiver will act as a hub and make integrating different devices and various standards much simpler.

Speaker choice could be interesting. A pair of mid-sized bookshelf speakers (Dali Zensor 2 or Monitor Audio BX2) would provide plenty off bass for music and are damned fine hi-fi speakers in their own right. I would have these in preference to floorstanders upto £250/pr. They would equal or beat the quantity of bass from an all-in-one sub, and be far more articulate and acurate in the process. If you felt the need, a sub could always be added at a later date.

For similar money (£200-£250) you could buy a sub/sat kit and just use the centre, front pair, and the sub. Sonically though this would be a step backwards since making a sub and 5 satellite speakers for £250 requires far more compromises than two hi-fi speakers.

AV receivers can be configured to run any combination of speakers from stereo up to full surround. They are far more flexible than what you have been used to.
 
@RoyMi6 - Thanks so much for your kind & thorough response. That makes total sense now!

@FerretBoy & @TALON1973 - I hear what you're saying. But will a 2.1 system really give as deep, detailed and powerful sounds as a 5.1, even when they are all next to the TV?

That Onkyo looks really neat though - does anyone here have it?

@lucid - That's great advice. I'd be looking at bookshelf speakers only, actually. So are you saying that I do not need a sub to start with? I am not a huge fan of bass, to be honest, but from what I gather, a sub is needed for that depth.

When looking at AV receivers, will they all support 5.1 or do I have to check that?


Thanks so much for you input, I'm learning a lot!
 
Put it this way, if you were buying a Hi-Fi, then bookshelf speakers + amp + CD player/turntable would be a perfectly rational choice. The right type/size of bookshelf speaker would give enough bass to satisfy most music types except that stuff with extreme bass.

Monitor Audio BX2 or Dali Zensor 3 would keep you quite happy, I'm sure. Start off with those, and after a while you'll begin to appreciate that the bass is more than just a single note thump-thump-thump, and that it's actually playing notes and musical phrases that compliment what's happening further up the musical scale. Those notes have shape and precision. They start and stop cleanly.

It's useful to think of this in terms of what you have listening to so far; a Kenwood system and a succession of home-cinema-in-a-box systems. With the greatest respect to you and to Kenwood because I know it of old from the days before surround sound when it was called Trio and a respected Hi-Fi brand, there's still a good chance that you've never really heard what a proper Hi-Fi can do. These speakers are a step in the right direction. They up the game considerably from what you have been used to.

You asked if when looking at AV receivers do they all support 5.1. The answer is a qualified yes.

If it's a proper AV receiver, and not some kind of half-breed 2.1 system, and not a simple Hi-Fi receiver, then it will be 5.1 as a minimum.
 
Hi Lucid,

Thanks so much for your response.

To be honest, I just want speakers + AV receiver to start with. It's quite exciting and I'm looking forward to experiencing proper Hi-Fi sound, as you mentioned. But I don't really know where to start, as I would like to get all 5.1 speakers to start with, so they all match.

What do you think about getting 5.1 to start with as opposed to 2.1 or just 2?

Thank you!
 
Just to be clear, unless you're setting up a 5.1 setup as intended with the surround speakers at the back, there are disadvantages to buying a 5.1 setup over a stereo speaker set. The most obvious is that you'll be buying worse quality speakers overall as you'll have to buy more of them, the other being the loss of stereo imaging.

Are you going to have your speakers set up as a surround sound setup?
 
lisali said:
Hi Lucid,

Thanks so much for your response.

To be honest, I just want speakers + AV receiver to start with. It's quite exciting and I'm looking forward to experiencing proper Hi-Fi sound, as you mentioned. But I don't really know where to start, as I would like to get all 5.1 speakers to start with, so they all match.

What do you think about getting 5.1 to start with as opposed to 2.1 or just 2?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
In your opening post you said that the room is small and all the speakers will be next to the TV. Is that actually what you meant? Did you really mean that you intend to put the rear surround speakers next to the front and centre speakers, because that's what it sounds like you were saying. If it is (and that's what the rest of us have picked up on) then buying a 5.1 speaker package is a complete waste of time for you. It's a waste for two reasons:

1) surround speakers have to go towards the back of the room. They're generating sound that is supposed to be heard behind you, not from in front.

2) as tom_nieto said, you're dividing your funds and that means less £££'s per speaker.... so worse speakers. It's a simple bit of maths really. If your budget is £300 for two speakers, that's £150 per speaker. But £300 on a 5.1 system means roughly half the budget on a sub, which then leaves £150 to divide between the 5 remaining speakers: £30 per speaker.

2x £30 (£60) buys you something like Wharfedale Diamond 9.0 As good as the little Diamonds are for the money, no dealer would take you seriously if you asked to dem £60/pr speakers against £300/pr speakers. They're not even remotely in the same ball park for performance.

In the same vein then, you can't expect the sort of performance from a £300 5.1 system as you'll get from a £300 pair of stereo speakers. I know you say you're new to this, but even that must make sense on some kind of basic level.


Granted, we don't know what "good sound" means to you other than you thought all-in-ones sounded okay (:eek:). But from the info that you yourself have provided, and a little reading between the lines on our part, plus our experience in dealing with similar enquiries in the past, it does sound like you should get stereo speakers with a 5.1 receiver. That would give you the benefits with music and TV that we have already painstakingly outlined.
 
If you are positioning your surround speakers at the front this is likely to actually have a detrimental effect on the soundstage, if you don't have space to correctly position 5 speakers around the room then there is absolutely no benefit (and a lot of negatives) to a 5 speaker system.

In my opinion, at the budget end AV amps offer pretty poor sound quality. An £800 AV amp would sound worse than a £300 stereo amp for example. Although an AV amplifier is better suited to handling multiple A/V inputs the same effect can be achieved using a stereo amp. The audio feeds are directed from the dvd player or sky box to the stereo amp (possibly via a DAC) whilst the video feeds go directly to the T.V.

Given that you listen to a lot of music a stereo amp is going to provide your ears with a better experience. I would recommend a stereo amp with a pair of floor standers or a pair of bookshelf speakers with a sub (for dvds).
 
Can I echo the sentiments of those advising against a 5.1 setup with the speakers all at the front.

Get a reasonable AV receiver and just use 2.1 speakers with it, or even 3.1 - you can add the surrounds at a later point.

For actual sound quality I would suggest possibly picking up some second hand speakers. You will get much more bang for you buck. Speakers last forever (not literally) and they don't really get "new features". For the AV receiver, if you are on a budget I would suggest looking at a receiver from last years lines. You will get much better sound quality while sacrificing a possible bell or whistle.

Richer Sounds and Sevenoaks are both good for discounted lines.

For the AV receiver you could get something like this

http://www.richersounds.com/showclearanceproduct/DENO-AVRX2000/Denon+Avrx2000.html

That is a lot of AV Receiver for only £190. Similar things are available elsewhere.

Classifieds on AVForums is also worth investigating.
 
Hi all,

Thanks so much for your kind responses! I have spent the last few days researching receivers and speakers, and while I wanted to provide an update sooner, I never got an email notification of new responses. Sorry about that!

What you are saying makes sense. I was just thinking that I'd like all the speakers to match once I am able to put the surrounds in the back, and it seems easier to do that if I get a 5.1 speaker set to start with.

I also have a bit of limited space for the receiver, and from what I've been able to find online, these models would be fine.

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/pioneer/vsxs310/pion-vsx310-blk

http://www.richersounds.com/product/av-receivers/marantz/nr1504/mara-nr1504


What do you guys think about them? Any other suggestions?

When it comes to speakers, are there any 3.1 speaker sets, or is this something that I'd have to put together myself?

I know I am limited by space and money for the time being.

Thanks so much for your advice!
 
I'm sat here shaking my head.

On the one hand you say you that the advice makes sense. You then add that money is limited. But then you go and say that you want all the speakers to match which implies doing the exact opposite of what's been advised. You're contradicting yourself. Why bother asking for advice from knowledgeable people if you're just going to ignore it? :confused:

There's a large market for used speakers. Fronts, centres, surrounds and subs. Everything you need to make a good 5.1 system. You can buy new or used fronts now, and get the best you can afford. Then add the rest at a later date. As long as you start off with something fairly mainstream from KEF, Monitor Audio, Dali, Focal, Mission etc then there's pretty much always going to be centres and surrounds available in the used market. Subs.... it doesn't matter about matching the brand.

I have a feeling you're heading off to buy a receiver and a 5.1 kit and you'll end up with substantially lower performance than you could have had with just a little less ego and a little more patience.
 
lucid said:
I'm sat here shaking my head.

On the one hand you say you that the advice makes sense. You then add that money is limited. But then you go and say that you want all the speakers to match which implies doing the exact opposite of what's been advised. You're contradicting yourself. Why bother asking for advice from knowledgeable people if you're just going to ignore it? :confused:

There's a large market for used speakers. Fronts, centres, surrounds and subs. Everything you need to make a good 5.1 system. You can buy new or used fronts now, and get the best you can afford. Then add the rest at a later date. As long as you start off with something fairly mainstream from KEF, Monitor Audio, Dali, Focal, Mission etc then there's pretty much always going to be centres and surrounds available in the used market. Subs.... it doesn't matter about matching the brand.

I have a feeling you're heading off to buy a receiver and a 5.1 kit and you'll end up with substantially lower performance than you could have had with just a little less ego and a little more patience.
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Sorry - but how am I contradicting myself? I asked about 3.1 set-ups, as I hear what you are saying. I do not want used speakers. I came here because I do not know everything and want advice. :(

The line: "I was just thinking that I'd like all the speakers to match once I am able to put the surrounds in the back, and it seems easier to do that if I get a 5.1 speaker set to start with." was referring to my initial messages. Because of what everyone has advised here, I then asked: "When it comes to speakers, are there any 3.1 speaker sets, or is this something that I'd have to put together myself?".

I do not know what I did wrong here.
 
Don't worry! The advice would be to gradually build up a 5.1 surround system rather than buy it all at once.

I personally ditched surround sound in favour of stereo only as a well sorted stereo only system has good enough imaging to negate the need for a centre, and I have never wanted for more bass, even with bookshelf speakers. Rears are something that I would like to have back eventually, but money and setting them up have stalled me.

If I were you, I would firstly really assess your need for an amplifier to also perform video switching duties. I allow my TV to do that for me. If you're not that bothered, then you'll achieve a much higher quality music system (which will also be good for TV and movies) with a simple stereo amp and speakers.

If you want to have the advanced features and the option of surround in the future, that's very reasonable and you should go for a surround sound AV receiver. If this is the case, simply buy the fronts now along with a reveicer. Don't bother with a sub or a centre right now, Matching the fronts with a centre at a later date is not too tricky if you're buying new speakers as just about every manufacturer these days does a centre speaker to match their other speaker lines.

TL: DR - Buy an AV receiver and front speakers only for now and build up later.
 
tom_nieto said:
Don't worry! The advice would be to gradually build up a 5.1 surround system rather than buy it all at once.

I personally ditched surround sound in favour of stereo only as a well sorted stereo only system has good enough imaging to negate the need for a centre, and I have never wanted for more bass, even with bookshelf speakers. Rears are something that I would like to have back eventually, but money and setting them up have stalled me.

If I were you, I would firstly really assess your need for an amplifier to also perform video switching duties. I allow my TV to do that for me. If you're not that bothered, then you'll achieve a much higher quality music system (which will also be good for TV and movies) with a simple stereo amp and speakers.

If you want to have the advanced features and the option of surround in the future, that's very reasonable and you should go for a surround sound AV receiver. If this is the case, simply buy the fronts now along with a reveicer. Don't bother with a sub or a centre right now, Matching the fronts with a centre at a later date is not too tricky if you're buying new speakers as just about every manufacturer these days does a centre speaker to match their other speaker lines.

TL: DR - Buy an AV receiver and front speakers only for now and build up later.
Click to expand...

Hi tom_nieto - thanks so much for your response! That is very clear and as I'd like to build up to a 5.1 system, an AV receiver is what I'm going with.

Out of the two receivers in my previous post, which one would you suggest?

PIONEERVSXS310 or MARANTZNR1504?

When it comes to speakers to go with these, I saw "MORDAUNT SHORT M10" at Richer Sounds, in store, and they looked really nice, and they don't have that glossy, dust-attracting finish, which is a plus. Are they any good?

Or these alternatives: Q ACOUSTICS2010i GR or Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 Speakers?

Any other suggestions?

Huge thanks!
 
You should really try listening to some speakers rather than just choosing by what looks nice. It'll start to make sense why the M10s are £70 compared to the beefier Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 at £130

Where's the centre and surrounds and sub to go with the M10's too?

The M10s look like just a cheap pair of quite small bookshelf speaker that'll sit with a little DC/DAB micro system. They're short on bass (very!) and make no sense in the context of all the things you said you wanted.

Of the two other speakers you listed, there's a lot of love for Q Acoustics here, but I'd still lean towards the Wharfedales. They have the largest cabinet volume and deepest bass response on paper. You still need to listen before deciding, but if you're skint and it's a toss up between better quality stereo speakers or crappy ones plus a crappy sub then go for quality.... always.... every time.

Oh, and Marantz for the receiver.
 
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I'd go with the wharfedale speakers definitely. Not sure about the receivers really, at this end of the scale I'd buy on features rather than anything else. I don't think either will be massively better than the other sonically. Both are well known brands which have made good receivers in equal measure.

If you get a chance, do go and listen to some kit.

EDIT: is space really at such a premium? £259 would buy you a Denon AVR X2000 which seems brilliant for the money.
 
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