I have a Denon 1507 AV receiver, but it has virtually no control of dynamic range, if I were to play the fellowship of the ring for example, setting the volume high enough to hear the epilogue dialogue would cause hearing damage in the subsequent battle scene. Are there any av receivers with more extensive control of dynamic range so it can be compressed better to correct the failures of the audio producers?
Av reciever with good dynamic range controls?
- Thread starter Energize
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Hi mate
I would suggest checking your speaker levels and make sure they all @ 75db using a spl metre then your issue should be gone.
It's harder to check the sub level with an spl you either need to do it by ear or using REW
Newer Pioneer av amps have DRC but I couldn't tell you how effective they are never used it as never had your problem
DRC is designed for watching films later at night when you don't want that sudden impact that wakes the munchkins up
I would suggest checking your speaker levels and make sure they all @ 75db using a spl metre then your issue should be gone.
It's harder to check the sub level with an spl you either need to do it by ear or using REW
Newer Pioneer av amps have DRC but I couldn't tell you how effective they are never used it as never had your problem
DRC is designed for watching films later at night when you don't want that sudden impact that wakes the munchkins up
It's not the audio producers which are at fault - it's a proper use of dynamic range.
If you're still struggling then it's an imbalance somewhere in your system. As EllisDJ suggests the starting point is to ensure that each of the channels in your surround array are properly balanced. A specific reading of 75dB isn't that important unless you're looking for exact calibrations, but each channel should be identical when using an decibel meter. Perhaps for your own choice raise the centre channel a little higher to ensure the dialogue is cutting through.
If you've done that and you're still having issues, then sorry but you're simply not appreciating the impact that 'properly' produced sound can give you. Everyday TV and radio is so massively dynamically compressed that we're incredibly used to everything being at one level.
If you're still struggling then it's an imbalance somewhere in your system. As EllisDJ suggests the starting point is to ensure that each of the channels in your surround array are properly balanced. A specific reading of 75dB isn't that important unless you're looking for exact calibrations, but each channel should be identical when using an decibel meter. Perhaps for your own choice raise the centre channel a little higher to ensure the dialogue is cutting through.
If you've done that and you're still having issues, then sorry but you're simply not appreciating the impact that 'properly' produced sound can give you. Everyday TV and radio is so massively dynamically compressed that we're incredibly used to everything being at one level.
I have always used Yamaha receivers, and they have quite a good DRC, I will chuck it on sometimes in the night if me and the mrs are watching something.
It sounds odd mind, but saves disturbing the neighbours too much. Dont think any DRC's are brilliant, but I could be wrong.
Also agree with the other guys, try turning center up slightly, and maybe turn bass down a little? As it is bass that travels the best.
My Marantz pre/pro uses Audyssey dynamic volume,which seems to work well,boosting the dialogue and taming the effects,great when watching late at night although it does take the impact out of many scenes(the price you pay for clearer speech I suppose).
I agree with Lowe's comments on dynamic range and today's over use of compression,most radio broadcasts and modern music have the life wrung out of them thanks to dynamic compression.
I agree with Lowe's comments on dynamic range and today's over use of compression,most radio broadcasts and modern music have the life wrung out of them thanks to dynamic compression.
Hi mate
I would suggest checking your speaker levels and make sure they all @ 75db using a spl metre then your issue should be gone.
It's harder to check the sub level with an spl you either need to do it by ear or using REW
Newer Pioneer av amps have DRC but I couldn't tell you how effective they are never used it as never had your problem
DRC is designed for watching films later at night when you don't want that sudden impact that wakes the munchkins up
The setup wizard set every speaker to the same output automatically using the microphone. When playing in 5 channel stereo everything sounds fine, so it's definitely a dynamic range problem.
I'll try increasing the centre speaker output though.
Yeah and they normally cause hearing damage too. Don't want to experience that when watching movies thanks.
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There's a couple of points here;
1) we know what the amp is but not the speakers. That could be very significant.
Denon amps are generally a little more realistic with their wattage claims, so there's a bit more headroom from a Denon compared to some other brands. But if the speakers are particularly inefficient then they will be far harder to drive. This will restrict dynamics. It's not unheard of to find centre speakers that are less efficient than the front pair. That won't help either.
2) Having the sub too loud with small satellite speakers can swamp the centre. The sub provides much of the male vocal range and some of the lower end of the female vocal range. It also does all the bass and a lot of the midrange. It's a big ask from a single box, especially if it's a typical <£500 speaker kit.
Others have mentioned about rechecking the set up of the speakers and levels. If working by ear then be aware that speaker position and the surfaces the sound is reflecting from can accentuate certain frequencies making a speaker test tone sound louder than it really is. Auto setup mics don't always get it right either. Buy or borrow a sound meter and big tape measure. Check the figures. If you need to, add a couple of dB lift to the centre channel and try that.
Yamaha receivers have a Dialogue Lift function. Even when all the above is correct then there are still occasions where the dialogue needs a bit of a boost. This might be due to the mix on the film sound track, or room acoustics for the seating position. If you're still struggling then a Yamaha might be a solution.... or just a better centre speaker.
1) we know what the amp is but not the speakers. That could be very significant.
Denon amps are generally a little more realistic with their wattage claims, so there's a bit more headroom from a Denon compared to some other brands. But if the speakers are particularly inefficient then they will be far harder to drive. This will restrict dynamics. It's not unheard of to find centre speakers that are less efficient than the front pair. That won't help either.
2) Having the sub too loud with small satellite speakers can swamp the centre. The sub provides much of the male vocal range and some of the lower end of the female vocal range. It also does all the bass and a lot of the midrange. It's a big ask from a single box, especially if it's a typical <£500 speaker kit.
Others have mentioned about rechecking the set up of the speakers and levels. If working by ear then be aware that speaker position and the surfaces the sound is reflecting from can accentuate certain frequencies making a speaker test tone sound louder than it really is. Auto setup mics don't always get it right either. Buy or borrow a sound meter and big tape measure. Check the figures. If you need to, add a couple of dB lift to the centre channel and try that.
Yamaha receivers have a Dialogue Lift function. Even when all the above is correct then there are still occasions where the dialogue needs a bit of a boost. This might be due to the mix on the film sound track, or room acoustics for the seating position. If you're still struggling then a Yamaha might be a solution.... or just a better centre speaker.
If you have measured and they all read the same db on an spl meter then great - however its not always the case. They are not bang on perfect even the setups in the £2k+ Av Amps. They are bloody close though.
The only other thing I can think of is your amp might be eq'ing the life out of the centre speaker if its using a setup such as Audessey if it has it. maybe try a different setting i.e. flat instead of natural if it has the options.
Have you got your speakers set to small - if yuo have them set to large then mayeb that is your cause - the amo not driving your centre channel well enough / the speaker is not coping with a full range signal and its messing up the vocal
You can boost the centre channel however it needs to match the front 2 to give a proper front sound stage so its not a good idea
I also think DRC is not ideal for optimum sound - as the chap aboove quite humerously states an explosion os often louder than a conversation.
5 Channel stereo plays pretty much the same thing through all 5 speakers - however with a decodef ilm the centre channel is the most important / most sensitive - its easier to hear where things are not right - the rest of the speakers in 5 channel stereo likely gloss over the problem
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The speakers are the Tannoy EFX 5.1 set.
I've measured the distance from the speakers to the mic so that is correct. I've also tried turning the sub off and it's still too loud. I'm not talking about explosions here but everything being too loud all of a sudden.
This dvd in particular,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYkcrgced9U
from 1:30 here the sound becomes incredibly loud if I have the volume high enough to hear the dialogue at the start.
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I will fire this same disc up in the morning - I only have on blu ray but there is likely the dolby digital sound track on there as well as the DTS HD Master and let you know how it sounds.
I have a very good system - setup very well. room with acoustic treatment without blowing own trumpet many £0000's worth so will report back
The Tannoy speaker system you have my dad has the same one or similar I bought it for him a few years ago as a xmas present.
His has 5 speakers all the same - the set I have seen seems to have a larger centre speaker.
What set do you have?
My dads system is a little light in the vocals - they are extrmely laid back sounding speakers, maybe you are having to turn it up enough to get good centre then the rest goes with it ?? But it seems only on that film or do you have other examples?
Obviosuly the battke you highlight is actaully the battle for the world of Middle Earth so its a pretty big event. try firing up Return of the King and when they attack the castle - it proper kicks off then with the huge elephants and hundereds of arrows firing around.
Also several scenes within Tron Legacy - new one - althought The Tron Sound Track is exquisite its first class close to perfection. So any anomolies in the replay are system related without a doubt
I have a very good system - setup very well. room with acoustic treatment without blowing own trumpet many £0000's worth so will report back
The Tannoy speaker system you have my dad has the same one or similar I bought it for him a few years ago as a xmas present.
His has 5 speakers all the same - the set I have seen seems to have a larger centre speaker.
What set do you have?
My dads system is a little light in the vocals - they are extrmely laid back sounding speakers, maybe you are having to turn it up enough to get good centre then the rest goes with it ?? But it seems only on that film or do you have other examples?
Obviosuly the battke you highlight is actaully the battle for the world of Middle Earth so its a pretty big event. try firing up Return of the King and when they attack the castle - it proper kicks off then with the huge elephants and hundereds of arrows firing around.
Also several scenes within Tron Legacy - new one - althought The Tron Sound Track is exquisite its first class close to perfection. So any anomolies in the replay are system related without a doubt
I wonder, is the player set to default to stereo or mixing down 5.1 to stereo. Have a look at the player settings.
Says dolby digital 5.1 on the front when playing a blu-ray or dvd.
Did you try it out?
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Hello mate
Yes I did try it out - however on the blu ray there is only the DTS HD Master and no other soundtracks - there is normally a few on a blu ray but not this one.
Obviously its a differently decoded soundtrack - however I actually found the sound to be very steady - I set my receiver on my standard film listening volume.
The vocal was clear - she does whisper the first bit but thats all part of it talking about Mordor. Then the war starts and apart from when the music starts which is typical LOR and gets a bit louder the rest is steady.
There is certainly not no big peak in the sound there
Yes I did try it out - however on the blu ray there is only the DTS HD Master and no other soundtracks - there is normally a few on a blu ray but not this one.
Obviously its a differently decoded soundtrack - however I actually found the sound to be very steady - I set my receiver on my standard film listening volume.
The vocal was clear - she does whisper the first bit but thats all part of it talking about Mordor. Then the war starts and apart from when the music starts which is typical LOR and gets a bit louder the rest is steady.
There is certainly not no big peak in the sound there
Soldato
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I just tried the dvd on my living room system which is a reasonable system (Yamaha 3067 with Arcam 9p power amps running the front inwall Monitor Audio w380s, rear speakers are ceiling c380fxs). Room is lightly sound treated, dialogue is clear through out the scene at low volume. One thing I did notice is the amp is reporting a 4db dialogue lift, how are you playing the movie ? If it is a ripped copy I have noticed sometimes these DD flags are not encoded properly by the ripping software.