Average holiday pay

Sandycheeks · 6 Jul 2019 at 15:53

I've only just found out about this and wondering if I bring this up with my employer if I will be liable for backdated pay.
I've worked there for 14 years. I know this ruling only came into force in 2014.
My contract hours are 40pw but I regularly work 50+
Anyone been in a similar position?

muon · 6 Jul 2019 at 20:14

Would it take you below minimum wage?

Is your overtime compulsory?

Sandycheeks · 7 Jul 2019 at 00:51

muon said:
Would it take you below minimum wage?

Is your overtime compulsory?

It's nothing like that. I'm far from min wage. Not Gucci belt top earner though.
I just wondered the legality of it as my holiday pay is always just basic rate and not based on the hours I've worked previous.

muon · 7 Jul 2019 at 00:55

Ah okay, so you are paid for overtime. I misunderstood.

Sandycheeks · 7 Jul 2019 at 19:55

I checked my contract and it doesn't mention average pay for holidays but does that matter?
I didn't think it was an opt in/out matter, I thought now it's law that that should override whatever was wrote before it became law.

Diagro · 7 Jul 2019 at 22:26

You need to raise this with your HR department.

Take some numbers in with you

Fine · 7 Jul 2019 at 22:33

You normally just get paid basic for holidays

Sandycheeks · 8 Jul 2019 at 11:34

Fine said:
You normally just get paid basic for holidays

Yes but it should be an average of the previous 12 weeks should it not?

cheesyboy · 8 Jul 2019 at 11:39

Sandycheeks said:
Yes but it should be an average of the previous 12 weeks should it not?

if the overtime is regular, then yes it should be included in holiday calculations.

The legal meaning of 'regular' is not defined, but if you work overtime every week, or most weeks, then it should qualify.

If the overtime is contractually required to be worked, then it should always be included.

They can't not pay it to you - it's their mistake. If you were owed it, then they need to back-pay you. It might be difficult to convince them of this, of course.

Mr Badger · 8 Jul 2019 at 11:41

Fine said:
You normally just get paid basic for holidays

Not any more.

A2Z · 9 Jul 2019 at 03:38

Why would overtime give you more holiday :confused:

it should be on your contractual hours. I work at least 15 hours a month overtime nearly every month and I or anybody else certainly doesn't get any extra holidays.. get 52 days so don't exactly need it lol but still the point stands.

Deleted member 66701 · 9 Jul 2019 at 11:07

Sandycheeks said:
I checked my contract and it doesn't mention average pay for holidays but does that matter?

No, it doesn't matter.

I didn't think it was an opt in/out matter, I thought now it's law that that should override whatever was wrote before it became law.

Correct. Your holiday pay should be based on your average hours worked (over prev 13 weeks iirc), not your basic contracted hours. Obviously different for salaried people who work unpaid overtime (although if you work unpaid overtime without at least TOiL then more fool you).

A2Z said:
Why would overtime give you more holiday it should be on your contractual hours. I work at least 15 hours a month overtime nearly every month and I or anybody else certainly doesn't get any extra holidays.. get 52 days so don't exactly need it lol but still the point stands.

You don't get extra holiday entitlement, you get extra pay to make up for the average hours you would have otherwise worked if you were not on holiday.

Semple · 9 Jul 2019 at 11:36

A2Z said:
Why would overtime give you more holiday it should be on your contractual hours. I work at least 15 hours a month overtime nearly every month and I or anybody else certainly doesn't get any extra holidays.. get 52 days so don't exactly need it lol but still the point stands.

If you're working 15 hours a month overtime every month, then sounds like you're missing out. Whether you can be bothered to challenge your employer about it or not is of course upto you.

As for the OP if you're working 10 hours a week overtime every single week, frankly i'd be asking why they're not employing more people as clearly there's an understaffing issue going on there, and secondly that would amount to quite a number of hours you should in theory be getting paid for, so yes i'd certainly bring it up.

Semple · 9 Jul 2019 at 11:39

Fine said:
You normally just get paid basic for holidays

The idea i believe was that if someone was earning (numbers are for example only) £1,000 a month from their basic monthly salary, but then earning £125/week in overtime payments over the course of 3 months. If they then took a 2 week holiday, they'd be missing out on the £250 overtime payments that they would have got had they been working those two weeks.

cheesyboy · 9 Jul 2019 at 11:44

cheesyboy said:
They can't not pay it to you - it's their mistake. If you were owed it, then they need to back-pay you. It might be difficult to convince them of this, of course.

More on this, from ACAS:

If you think your holiday pay should be different
If you think you're not getting as much paid holiday as you’re entitled to or are not sure how it's being calculated, you should talk with your employer.

You could also check your contract or written terms of employment.

Remember, if you believe your holiday pay is incorrect, you have 3 months less 1 day from the date you received the last incorrect payment to take your claim to an employment tribunal. So it’s a good idea to talk to your employer as soon as possible.

The last line is important: you can claim going back years, but only have 3 months from when they stop paying you incorrectly to make an employment tribunal claim.

Sandycheeks · 9 Jul 2019 at 18:00

I asked the question and was told my employer is going to speak with the accountant.
I'll report back when I find out some more...

Jasoncmor · 9 Jul 2019 at 18:33

The hourly paid staff in my last job earned 5% off their wages for their holiday pay.
If they worked more hours, and earned more money, they would accumulate more holiday funds.
The hourly paid employees were not contracted to X hours but generally did work full time, well half of them did.

So I guess it depends if your contracted 40 hours a week is paid as a salary or if you are hourly paid?

dowie · 9 Jul 2019 at 19:47

This was never an issue years ago when I had some shift work - everyone generally made sure to never take any holiday during a week they were on shift or if they did then they'd trade with someone else... ergo pay was unaffected.

In fact if your holiday pay is, these days, calculated as an average given your shifts they you'd surely still lose out if you happen to take during a period where you'd otherwise be earning shift pay?

Sandycheeks · 9 Jul 2019 at 20:57

No, the average holiday pay should include things like bonus and shift allowance etc...
It was brought about due to workers getting lower holiday pay during leave and feeling like they're being penalised for having time off.
It isn't just overtime, it should include everything.

dowie · 9 Jul 2019 at 21:25

Yep, so you'd lose out if you took it during a period where you earned shift pay then (and conversely you'd get additional money, rather unfairly IMHO, if you got paid some average pay when taking holiday during a period where you worked normal shifts). Average pay is inherently lower than the high pay you get during that period and inherently higher than the basic pay you earn when not on shift. Bonus payments were annual and so were unaffected by holiday and overtime didn't apply.

Average holiday pay

Deleted member 66701

Deleted member 66701