Awkward kitchen layout ideas - very early stage

[danlightbulb]

Hi all,

Im looking for some ideas for how I can arrange my kitchen. Its a long narrow space with some awkward obsticles.

Im at a very early stage here, just considering layouts, Im a way off buying anything yet.

The room dimensions are width 1.73m, length 4.26m.

There is a window on the long wall, an external door at the end, and an internal door also (pictures below will show where things are).

The boiler is at the end of the room inside a tall wall unit (see pictures).

Under one set of cupboards are the gas and electricity meters and fuseboard.


Pictures of room:

Spoiler: Looking down room to external door. Boiler in cupboard far end on left. Internal door is immediately to my right.

Spoiler: Looking back up room from external door back towards where I was standing for the first picture:

Spoiler: energy meters and fuseboard are under cupboard at the end of the room furthest from exterior door.

Initial thoughts:

I have used DIY Kitchens planner to try some different layouts.

One thing I am thinking is to remove the external door at the far end and brick up halfway with a window, and have the sink and washing machine at that end.

The hob would then be in the centre on the long wall, to the left of the window.

The bigger issue though is the fridge freezer and the energy meters and fuseboard. The only place left for the fridge freezer is at the other end of the room. But you can from this mock up that Im restricted also for ceiling height in this area due to the stairs which pass above (see the triangular shape on the pictures above).

3D view of window end (I do like this):

Spoiler: 3D view of window end

3D view of other end (which Im not very happy with):

Spoiler: 3D view of fridge freezer and energy meters end

This is the DIY Kitchens planner layout considering the above:

Spoiler: Best layout I can come up with.

Main problems:

We have a tall fridge freezer which won't fit all the way to the left side at that end of the kitchen because of the stairs restriction above.

So I have to move it over to the right somewhat.

No matter where the fridge freezer is, access to the meters and fusebox is incredibly awkward. Depending how I do the cupboards, Im potentially only having access to meters and fuses by removing screwed in cover panels somehow attached to modified base units.


Constraints

I don't think its going to be feasible to move the energy meters or fuseboard. Doing so would be very high cost and the nature of the house means there isn't room for any external cabinets (at least not without significant works involving the gas/electricity board which I think will be crazy money).

There isn't scope to move the stairway above which is causing the triangular restriction at one end.

There's no scope to knock through into any other room to enlarge the area or otherwise extend.

There will be budget restrictions and I'll be looking to do a lot of the work myself. I'd probably go to a window installer to do the bricking up and new window in the end wall.

 

[danlightbulb]

if you cant go sideways , and dont want extra cost for meter movement, is there any scope to go outwards where the door is? you are already talking about removal and bricking up for a window, maybe a small extention in the form of a utility room?.

Its not possible no (at least not within my budget). There is a detached brick outhouse and shared entry gate with next door immediately out of the back door. To demolish this and relocate the back entry gate (even if neighbour agreed) to then build what would be a tiny extension would be significant cost and not worth it.

i presume you have patio doors or another exit route to the rear of the house in case of emergencys?

Yes the dining room has french doors to the rear.

 

[danlightbulb]

I had a similar issue a few years back, not stairs though and was able to knock a wall out and spread the kitchen into another room.
Is that a possibility, even if it just houses the fridge etc

Knocking walls out - no. But the fridge freezer is currently in the dining room in a corner. It aint terrible option, but I did want to try and get it into the kitchen, even if it meant some things like plates/dishes go in a cupboard in the dining room.

 

[danlightbulb]

Hard to tell if there is space but cant the fridge rotate to the right and go up against the exterior wall (looking at current idea, rotate F/F 90 deg clockwise and then push again wall so its next to the meters but still under the stairs?)

Thanks, there isn't space to do that no, not in that corner. The meters and fusebox are so awkwardly placed they stop anything going within about 300 of the end wall or 300mm of the outside wall. If the fridge was there, it would have to be out 300mm forward from the wall and would be directly blocking access to the consumer unit.

Other thoughts, how old is the boiler, any thoughts about heat pump (mostly outside) or relocating gas boiler to loft

That way you could get that tall corner spot back and put the fridge freezer there

Its about 10 years old combi, working fine (touch wood). Heat pump I don't think is an option- old house, difficult to heat, no real space in the garden for it. Relocating boiler to loft would be possible but incredibly disruptive meaning lifing floors, reworking gas pipe across to the other side of the house completely. Doable on a full strip out but not really something I want to do.

Even with the boiler gone, the fridge could only go there if I kept the back door, as if I brick up the door and put a sink there it then blocks out that corner.

Could you ditch the fridge freezer and get under counter (inbuilt if you prefer) separate freezer and fridge?

This is certainly viable. There is enough width there for 2x550mm wide fridge/freezer units. Probably wouldn't be as much space as in the current combo fridge freezer (its a big one - 600mm wide and 1.85m tall).

That smaller side looks like a dumping ground as its so shallow. Could you consider not having anything there?
Would seem a lot more roomy

You mean the slim units on the right side of the room?

Yes my initial plan was to get rid of them potentially to widen the space. Although it doesn't look too bad as a wrap around to the end of the kitchen and gives me a bit more cupboard. I would only keep base units here as ditching the wall units would definitely make it feel wider.

Spoiler: wrap around base units at door end of kitchen

 

[danlightbulb]

Not seen your dining room, but could you move the kitchen into the dining room. Possibly leave washing machine in the old kitchen at the meter cupboard end and have a dining table set up at the door to the garden end. Or just a nice couch if you can set up a dining kitchen. Room for drying clothes and with access outside.

A dartboard over the Washing machine end would be good too.

Some houses in the street have knocked through kitchen and dining room to make a combined area. It's a supporting wall though so we're talking significant costs. From what I've seen, a lot of these conversions were done 70s/80s when structural stuff was much cheaper.

I think the current kitchen is too narrow (1.7m) to be able to use it for much else.

The dining room isn't on an external wall so would be difficult to route the waste pipes. So the washing machine and sink would stay in there making it a bit strange to have the cooker and cabinets in a separate room I think.

 

[danlightbulb]

Do you have space elsewhere in house for some dry/tinned food storage (full understairs cupboard) the upper cupboards on right accentuate a bit of claustrophobia. ?
I have a 2nd freezer under the stairs.(but even freezer in kitchen might only be opened every 3 days )

I'd make a trial blocking the door to see how much that might constrain you ... had a kitchen door blocked at a previous property by a washing machine,
having to use french doors for egress to garage/bin/garden ... was a pain;
having left and right access to sink too is invaluable if you are often cooking with someone.

have you checked out neighbours choices with similar layout.

The understairs cupboard space is very small, have to kneel down to get in, so not really much use. We store tool boxes in there at the moment.

The rest of the houses on the street - there's about 30 of this design then it changes. We've seen a couple in person and some on rightmove when they've come up for sale. The ones we've seen have tended to have the kitchen and dining room knocked through into one room to make a kitchen diner. But, there is still really only the outside wall thats suitable for kitchen units because that's where all the services and access to waste drainage is.

Here's one that was previously up for sale. The kitchen and dining room and hallway has all been opened up. Still can't see where the fridge is.

Check out this 3 bedroom semi-detached house for sale on Rightmove

3 bedroom semi-detached house for sale in Goldthorne Avenue, Sheldon, Birmingham, B26 for £260,000. Marketed by Oakmans Estate Agents, Shirley

www.rightmove.co.uk

Edit - ah they've repurposed the outside outhouse (outside toilet) and linked it up to the house to create a utility area of sorts. They've completely lost rear access in doing this though.

 

[danlightbulb]

Thanks @tamzzy . Its an option to completely brick up the back door I guess. Would lose some light though, the side window only looks out to a narrow side entry between the houses. Possible we could have the fridge up against the corner and keep half a window there. I'd need to find a place for the washing machine in your layout there as well though.

 

[danlightbulb]

replace dishwasher with washing machine

I wasn't including a dishwasher anyway given the already lack of space. Yeah could put washing machine under drainage board, would be quite crammed into that corner then though and washing machine doors always open left side hinges.

Such a difficult layout. The right thing to do would be to knock through (even then, all appliances would still need locating on that outside wall), but it would open up the area. I can't afford it though, simple as that.

 

[danlightbulb]

i would've thought then the right answer would be just to wait and save up
the current kitchen is serviceable and not in need for immediate replacement?
better to do it once and right, than to bodge a job and need/want to change in the future

Maybe but Im very averse to knocking through at all really - like I said it will open up the space but then we effectively 'lose' a room as the kitchen and dining room become one. I rarely eat at a dining table so that dining room is going to become a second living room overlooking the garden. I see a dining table stuck in middle of room as such a waste of space.

I potentially like the idea of extending the kitchen longways out the back to envelop the existing outhouse (outside toilet currently in there).

This is tricky though as its a shared back to back outhouse with the neighbours and has the rear access gate attached. Id have to build new walls, reroof it, and then fill in the floor. The back gate would be replaced with a proper door and then a new door right down the end so we can still access the garden from the side entry. Its a lot of work to gain space for a couple additional appliances.

 

[danlightbulb]

even knocking through the neighbours example shows how much less storage they have in kitchen (everything on inner wall gone, replaced by radiator; even though fridge&washer outside)
could your outhouse take a freezer?

Yes if i remove the outside toilet that's in there. Would be a hassle though, having to go outside every time I want a frozen chicken burger.

 

[danlightbulb]

What' s on the wall the other side of the Elec and Gas meter? DNO and Gas Transport should not charge more than a couple of hundred each to move the service to the other side of the wall. Only thing then would be the consumer unit and that can stay where it is without causing too much trouble.

A 1m wide (wall to wall) shared entry passageway between the two houses.

See the gas pipe entering the property just below the small window on the left, about half way along the entry passageway? Thats where the gas and electricity meters are on the inside.

 

[danlightbulb]

No reason you couldn't move the meter out there, as a service attachment it's part of your building and I would expect you own a 50% share of that access way.

Fyi I work for one of the largest energy suppliers in Europe, we do this sort of meter move all the time.

I'll look into it. I can see it might be possible to fit an electricity meter cabinet there but the gas meter is quite a lot larger and I don't want to impede the entry passage too much as need to be able to get the recycling bin down there.

You reckon only a couple hundred per service? Would they do all the excavation to access the service or would I do that in advance?

 

[danlightbulb]

What is the depth of the external box, if it extrudes more than the drain pipes it would be pretty narrow to get stuff in the alleyway

Looks like 225mm protrusion, which could be ok.

MK2 Surface Mounted Gas Meter Box Cover Housing (502mm x 408mm x 225mm) - White - With Backplate - Gas Equipment Direct

The Mark 2 surface mounted gas meter box has been designed for installations to British Standard BS6400:1:2:3, including G4/U6 gas meters. It is perfect for use where there is no cavity to recess into, or for using as a replacement cover for your old, broken box by simply removing the supplied...

www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk

Id be very surprised though if moving both these meters only costs me a couple hundred each. I bet its more like £1k each.

 

[danlightbulb]

What I might be able to do is fit an inset electric and gas meter cabinet.

I was already planning to get that small window bricked up (it's already blocked on the inside). Potentially the opening is already the right size for an inset electric meter cabinet, and I just brick up or frame up the inside skin.

Spoiler: external window I could repurpose into inset meter cabinet

Then directly below it it might be possible to remove the outer skin of the wall and fit an inset gas cabinet. There is already a double airbrick there which could form the start of the opening.

 

[danlightbulb]

Gonna throw you a curve ball here.
If your seriously thinking of moving the meters, bricking up the back door to wrapping around onto that wall.
Your plan had the sink there I believe.

Why not open up the place where the window is and reinstall the backdoor there, so you keep the light and access.
Have the door opening against the tall corner cupboard, and place the fridge freezer there?
I had a similarish layout in a previous house and it works well having the fridge freezer and back door in effect sharing the same access space.
(For clarity I mean the back door opening into the kitchen would back onto the front of the fridge freezer. The fridge freezer doors would also use that same space.)

Im struggling to understand/visualise what you are meaning unfortunately.

Are you potentially talking about putting the tall fridge freezer where the boiler currently is, in the back corner next to the existing back door?

 

[danlightbulb]

Yep

Ah ok thanks. Means I'd have to move the boiler too, which would be expensive and disruptive.

Pretty nightmare kitchen this. Small space and everything under the sun is currently in it.

 

[danlightbulb]

oh you mean the window behind the sink ? - or something past the stack

how much of the current meter cupboard volume was taken by the meter, or, could you have boxed it off somewhat, picture made it look as though gas one was at an angle, though -
unless you put white goods in that space is the value in moving them really justified.

Sorry I know the pictures make it awkward. Its hard to take them as the areas are so narrow or awkward.

Spoiler: red marked up area

Down the side entry, there is a large window into the kitchen which you can see in the picture, but further away (towards the front of the house) there is a very small window which was originally the window into the pantry. The area where the meters now are was originally an understairs pantry but its been opened up previously to be part of the kitchen. The gas and electric meters would originally have been at the back of the pantry and now are bodged into a hacked kitchen base unit.

Yes the gas meter is at an angle in the cupboard. That cupboard is essentially unusable as the back panel isn't there because of all the pipework and cables, and a shelf can't be fitted for the same reason.

Obviously I can't just permanently block it in because of the gas valve and consumer unit.


Moving them would probably be the 'right' solution (and is what should have been done long before I ever came near the place, but its left to me to fix the problems other people have left in this house, again).

It would eliminate the problem completely and allow a neater kitchen installation.

I take the point though that it might not be worth it if all Im gaining is one cupboard. No matter what I do, that understairs area is not neatly going to fit a tall fridge freezer.