B&W 801 Nautilus speakers

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My system is as follows: Gyrodeck with Orbe platter origin live illustrious arm, Lyra Delos cartridge Trichord Dino phono amp Pre is Cyrus 7 with Cyrus psu. Power is 4 Cyrus mono x bi amping Gershman Avant Ggarde floor standers, these are a Canadian 3 way. I am thinking of getting B&W 801 Nautilus second hand but, I am wondering if my four cyrus mono blocks would have enough power to drive them. (I have heard they need serious power) My Gershman speakers have performed well over the years but I have moved into a converted chapel and need bigger speakers to fill the space. Any thoughts on my considered change from your more informed forum members would be much appreciated. Are there other speakers I may try that will give me a much fuller sound with nice highs and solid bass?
 
At the moment the room is massive but I am in the process of converting the chapel. The listening room will be around 30ft x 30 ft ceiling is around 16 ft high.
 
Why do you feel the Avant Garde's won't fill the room space ? Or is it you are just looking for a much larger speaker for aesthetic reasons ?
 
The Gershmans do have a fairly good bass response for their size but I feel that the increase in size of the room requires a bit more bass. Its not for aesthetic reasons at all. All though the Gershmans are a 3 way floor stander they are small and don't give out enough bass The woofer is around 8 inch which I feel is too small to fill the new room.
 
I'm asking you these questions because although i have never owned a pair of 801's, i was loaned a pair by a friend for 6 months while he was away in the States years ago.
At the time i had a very large Georgian house, listening room was about 20ft x30ft and 14ft ceiling height with a suspended floor (as most Georgian houses do). To be honest i wanted to love the 801's because they just looked right in the room. Listening though was a very different experience. They are very very very picky about where you place them for a start, it took me the best part of a month before i found the best position for them. Regardless of anything you may have read, they absolutely hate suspended floors as well. The floor had such an impact on them in my case, the month spent finding the right position was really a lot of time wasted. They were far too "muddy" for my liking, they also seemed to lack any real "attack". In my mind, they would make a much better studio monitor than they do a speaker for listening to at home.
 
Hi thanks for the great advice. The floor will be concrete and have a slate finish when converted. I don't know from your experience that it would make much of a difference. I know they are an old speaker model but what in your opinion would do the job for a similar price point? By the way do think the cyrus amps would be fine in driving the 801s? From my set up can you spot any weakness at present or, when I make the conversion to the overall performance of my setup.
 
My current set up is, Michell Orb Se, SME V, Dynavector P75 MK3. Dynavector DV-20X2L, Audio Suspension platform, Airlink CBS3000UK balanced power supply, Naim Flatcap XS, Naim CD5 XS, Nait XS2, Spendor A9.

My Spendor A9's are probably bigger than your Avant Garde's i think, but are much easier to drive than your Avant Garde's and certainly much easier to drive than the 801's. They can easily fill a very large listening room to make your ears bleed if you want them to :D.
Not cutting edge to look at i know, and there replacements arn't either. But they do have masses of well defined punchy bass, a beautiful mid and top end that dosn't make your ears bleed until you turn the volume past 11. Also a lot cheaper than 801's.
801's are difficult to drive with any amp to be honest. I found with my Nait XS2, Flatcap XS and a balanced power supply no issues driving the 801's. I just did not like the 801's to be honest and of course they didn't like my floor :D
 
I think I read that the Spender A9s lack bass think it was in What hi-fi? What do think about speakers from Wilson? I just think that something like A9s would still not be room filling. I did have Spender 8s and thought the mids were fantastic. But the Gershmans had them beat overall. I would be looking to spend £ 3000 on a seconhand pair of speakers. When I sell my Gershmans. Any other suggestions
 
I think I read that the Spender A9s lack bass think it was in What hi-fi? What do think about speakers from Wilson? I just think that something like A9s would still not be room filling. I did have Spender 8s and thought the mids were fantastic. But the Gershmans had them beat overall. I would be looking to spend £ 3000 on a seconhand pair of speakers. When I sell my Gershmans. Any other suggestions

I read the same thing :D Sound and bass though are in the ears of the listener. Everyone that has ever heard my system always remarks on how deep, fast and punchy the bass is. I'm fully aware though that a lot of that is down to a balanced power supply, the Nait xs and the Flatcap xs.
I've never actually listened to a pair of Wilson Benesch speakers and don't know anyone that has a pair. They do have a good reputation though.........................not too shure though that you would be able to grab a pair of there big floorstanders second hand for £3000, i havn't looked though lol.
 
I meant the American Wilson speakers my mistake. Not many people have heard the Avant Garde's they do go low. Positioning is difficult with them need to be at least 3ft away from back wall. I would be looking for a much more beefier sound. its poss the 801s are more analytical and maybe less musical I will wait to hear them. I will try to audition other speakers but its difficult as I live in rural north wales.
 
I meant the American Wilson speakers my mistake. Not many people have heard the Avant Garde's they do go low. Positioning is difficult with them need to be at least 3ft away from back wall. I would be looking for a much more beefier sound. its poss the 801s are more analytical and maybe less musical I will wait to hear them. I will try to audition other speakers but its difficult as I live in rural north wales.

You are having a laugh ? Yes ?
No way in this world are you getting a pair of Wlson Audio floorstanders even 4th hand for £3000, unless you are thinking of the Puppies ? The Puppies have got to be the most ugly speaker ever made and are so old now, there are much better speakers even from all the usual suspects.
 
@Mike Byrne>Hi I am a current 802 series D2 owner although the 800 N series do share a lot of amplification and placement considerations. First off the N series were ear bleeders no matter how nice they look the highs were strident the mids recessed and the bass bloated . Also about placement they need to be well clear of walls and by that I mean not close to any unless you like your musical presentation more on the bassier side of things.

Regarding speakers on certain floors. You do not want to have a bare floor which is pure concrete and slate on top. Get some rugs down, carpet whatever. Otherwise you will be getting an echoing effect added to the sound. Given the high ceiling height and the dimensions of the room this could be quite severe.

Regarding amplification you say you have 4 cyrus mono X's? You should be fine bi amping per speaker. Although most if not all 800 series owners will tell you 250-300w minimum but that's not the whole story truth be told. They like current and lots of it and the more power the better. Like most Bowers speakers they don't sound anything special at very low volumes but crank it up a bit and they open up. The real issue lies in what the manufacturer stated impedance and what the actual impedance is. Most of the 800 series dips down to 3 ohms or so and that is entirely in the bass-mid bass region. It is this which has give the 800 series a bad reputation for needing stupid levels of amplification which is just as costly as the speaker themselves or even more so. I have owned Cyrus stuff before many years ago and it not on the same level as the Bowers 800 series not even close but you may find otherwise. Sonically wise I don't think they make a good match although when I had Cyrus I was using Dynaudio speakers at the time.

As regards to Wilson Audio The bass is tighter on them from what I recall but the Bowers has more presence bass wise. Also Wilson Audio are more cleaner than the 800 series at least from what I can recall. And I have to agree with Kitfit the look of Wilson Audio speakers is ghastly. WHile the sound is the most important aspect it is one thing to listen to them all day but to have to look at them as well...

Most 800 series owners go with mcintosh or classe monos per speaker. I went a different route as I wanted something different and I listen at more moderate levels. But I have seen a few integrated Macs that engage the powerguard mode. This is the mode Macs go into where it lowers the power output to protect itself and speakers. This is on a 300-400w model...

As Kitfit goes Wilson Audio speakers retain their value well as well as high end bowers speakers, So I am not sure what your options are 3k to fill a large room. Q acoustics concept 500? I suggest looking second hand via the bay and other audio sites.

As for alternatives to Bowers there are plenty but they will not be coming at 3k. Proac k6, Dynaudio confidence series, Kef blades/reference, wilson Audio, Bottom end magico, atc and the list goes on and on.

What part of North Wales do you live? I lived there for many years. If you live on the Bangor side your high end aspirations will have go to Wrexham/Chester side to start finding audio dealers who can offer you demos and what not.

But ask yourself this is it worth buying a speaker which is an unknown quantity to you with a romm that unknown and junk your amplification if it not up to driving it. Take it step by step. Wait for the room to be finished then audtion from a shortlist. You then can decide if the amplification you have is sonically and powerwise for you. Good luck on your journey.
 
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But ask yourself this is it worth buying a speaker which is an unknown quantity to you with a romm that unknown and junk your amplification if it not up to driving it. Take it step by step. Wait for the room to be finished then audtion from a shortlist. You then can decide if the amplification you have is sonically and powerwise for you. Good luck on your journey.

This is very good advice. I wouldn’t want B&W 801 hanging around a house renovation anyway in case of damage. At the very least see if you can take your cyrus amps to a dealer to see what they match well with.
 
If you have the money for the (US) Wilson's, then do it. As already mentioned, I've never seen any at the price you mention. Have heard a pair whilst in Boston a few years ago. Mind-blowingly good, but then they should have been at the price (multitudes bigger than £3k).
I've owned a pair of the smaller (UK) Wilson Benesch. They were VERY good, but I'm not sure that even the bigger ones would be suitable for such a large room. I'd say that you should look at some of the bigger US brands, and also consider some of less commonly talked about, e.g. the bigger JBLs. Whilst JBL might well sell a lot of low end gear, their upper end speakers (upto an including the Everests) are one of the few sets of speakers that has always left me very impressed.
 
Thank you fore the great advice guys. I wonder has anybody on the fourm heard the Avant gardes in the way of comparison with all the speaker suggestions?
I think after reading all the advice more cash will need to be found to get a newer rather than vintage pair of speakers. I wouldn't be getting a new pair till after the conversion and after the sale of my Gershmans as this would free up more funds. The wilsons and later B&w D2s sound good to me. Any thoughts on what Wilsons to go for? All being well the fund may go to 4 to 5 grand second hand. Iam sure the Cyrus mono blocks would be fine for the present. Room treatment would come later.
 
Thank you Goredwings19 all sound advice how does the 802 d2 compare with price comparable wilson audio speakers? Are the wilson a easer to drive and place in the room?
 
@Mike Byrne The 800 D2 series have now been superceded by the D3 series. Yet when I auditioned them while there more soundstaging and more dynamics the sound fatigued me. I just don't like the newer Bowers range. As much as I hate the look of Wilson speakers i.e all of them there was one I suppose I could look past and that was the Yvette I think it was called. I thought that sounded amazing. That is the only Wilson I would ever consider using but it the not in the same price category as the 802 d2 (14k) or the newer 802 d3 (18k) RRp.

I don't know what is the price comparable Wilson is possibly the Sofia? The Yvette is above it and at that price range you are in Magico, sonus faber land
As much as Wilson speakers are said to be tricky to drive I find them more acceptable with more modest amplification and by that I mean they sound great with decent integrated amplifiers from the likes of mcintosh and audio research that kind of amplification so still costly but not like 800 series required amplification. I have never seen a an 800 series setup which didn't have monoblocks per speaker and it usually the flasgship one from the likes of Classe, Mcintosh, Accuphase and Burmester. Even second hand the cheapeast which would be the classe monos the m600 would set you back 5k if you got a good price. When you get to the Mcintosh and Accuphase they will set you back roughly 10k or take so you look at the mc601 from mcintosh or from the Accuphase stable the m6000 which is 10 k again. Then you get to the Burmesters...... I won't even tell you the price but rest assured it filthy. These are all Second hand prices.

So from my point of view Wilson Audio has an initial higher cost but the hidden cost of amplification is cheaper relative to the Bowers option. Bowers are cheaper intially but the hidden cost of amplification is much higher.

Any speaker needs placement considerations but I found Most Bowers speakers are particularly fussy compare to other manufacturers regardless of price. When I had the 602 s2 many moons ago they were were a pain to get it to sound right so are my Pm-1's and now my current speakers. When I owned Dynaudio and Q acoustics sure if you placed them at wacky placemnts they wouldn't sound great. But if you place them in a matter of fact close to the sweet spot they sounded fine. The Q accoustics I had were great even when listening off axis (off center) they sounded a little worse but not as much as you expect.

So reading your subsequent posts you are looking at Wilsons or Bowers. @4-5k your choice is very very limited. You could get the older Watt puppies there is a pair on the bay for just under 3k and most 802 d2s go for about the 5.5k mark if it from a private seller. If it from an Audio dealer then you are looking at 6k+. But let me if I may just give a little snippet to consider. You can get the the 802 D for less than 5k or thereabouts. Now a guy I sold some hifi stuff to had a set. So when he came to my house to audition the the cd player he asked what speakers I had that I would be audtioning the cd player with. He didn't look too happy when I told him as he had the previous gen D version. I told him I have heard them a while back and can't remember it. According to him he said the D version was fatiguing. I told him I didn't hear it (D2) as that. So the audition began and when he finished the auditon of the cd player he said "I will take the cd player...also how much for the speakers..." I politely declined and we parted ways. So you can get older 800 series speakers but they vary sound characteristic wise. One thing of note I should make you aware of as this took me by complete suprise. I have owned a fair share of Bower speakers in my time. the 800 D series onwards is very very forward sounding. What I mean by this is imagine a concert hall or small concert the speaker will place your in the first row. So if you close your eyes and visualise the venue the singer or performance seems like it is 2-3 metres away and it is true of all recordings.

I have never experienced this before on any speaker as I tend to gravitate to speakers who place you in a middle of a venue. Just something to be weary of if you do/don't like that sort of thing
 
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