Bah, clutch went

Dangerous Dave · 4 Jan 2011 at 11:15

Merlin5 said:
Oh, apparently my car doesn't have a DMF, but just a regular flywheel, according to another garage, and I checked with robins and day parts dept who confirm that. I've been quoted £750 all in by another garage and they can do it all by tomorrow or thursday if I can get the car to them (don't know how, gonna try and get the AA to tow it again).

I would queston this my understanding is that the only car with the 2L HDI engine that didn't have a DMF was the Xsara. My girlfriend had an early 2002 110bhp 2L HDI and that had a DMF.

Merlin5 · 4 Jan 2011 at 11:27

Right then, sorted.

My quotes have been £1,050, £814 from the garage I was waiting the last quote from, and £750 from the AA approved garage with 5% discount. So now I'm going to make a 10 minute walk to the AA garage to drop off the keys and they'll go get the car towed back which is about 2 miles or so, and it's the £750 one. He also said he'll only fit the flywheel if it's really necessary, which I think it will be. Although since he's fitting a conversion kit which is clutch and flywheel all in one apparently, I don't see how I'll save money if he doesn't fit it, but still, we'll see, maybe he's got a separate clutch which isn't part of a kit.

Merlin5 · 4 Jan 2011 at 11:29

Dangerous Dave said:
I would queston this my understanding is that the only car with the 2L HDI engine that didn't have a DMF was the Xsara. My girlfriend had an early 2002 110bhp 2L HDI and that had a DMF.

Well, as I say, both the garage and robins and day, (robins and day looked it up based on my reg plate number) have said it doesn't have a DMF, so I dunno, I'll just go with what they recommend. Maybe after 2001 (my car reg year) it changed to DMF?

MrMoonX · 4 Jan 2011 at 14:04

the 2002 hdi doesnt have a dmf if its the 2l diesel, its the same engine in the pre 2004 Picasso which doesnt have dmf either, also it doesnt have a dpf

Merlin5 · 4 Jan 2011 at 14:52

MrMoonX said:
the 2002 hdi doesnt have a dmf if its the 2l diesel, its the same engine in the pre 2004 Picasso which doesnt have dmf either, also it doesnt have a dpf

Ah, there we go then.

Yeah, mine is a dark green 2.0 litre, 90bhp turbo diesel. Just says '307 HDi' on the tailgate.

Dangerous Dave · 4 Jan 2011 at 16:18

MrMoonX said:
the 2002 hdi doesnt have a dmf if its the 2l diesel, its the same engine in the pre 2004 Picasso which doesnt have dmf either, also it doesnt have a dpf

That can't be correct as my girlfriend's old 2002 110bhp 2L HDI 307 had one that failed and was replaced under warranty before we bought it. It also had a DPF which needed removed and cleaned out at 70k odd.

It may be the 90bhp does not have one but my understanding is the engine is basically the same minus a FMIC.

Locky · 4 Jan 2011 at 16:37

Me and my mate did his 307 HDI and the clutch kit including a new DMF was £329 from local motor factors.

Locky · 4 Jan 2011 at 16:42

Looking at prices from various places, the going rate seems to be 300 to 400 quid for the parts, then what ever labour the garage will charge you.

lordrobs · 4 Jan 2011 at 16:46

DMFs are a PITA

When my clutch started slipping I was advised by every source I could find (apart from Skoda themselves*) that I might as well replace the DMF at the same time because if it hadn't already started failing it was unlikely to last much into the duration of the new clutch meaning a second labour bill

*Skoda offered to "inspect the flywheel for signs of wear and advise if they thought a replacement was necessary, but most do need replacing". Which I decoded into "We will break the news of your impending £1000 bill into two slightly easier to swallow chunks"

Merlin5 · 5 Jan 2011 at 12:52

Garage just rang. They'd taken gearbox out and confirmed single flywheel, but said it doesn't need replacing, it looks fine. So that's good news. They said there was bad news because a bearing inside the gearbox was crushed hence the horrible noise of the engine just after the clutch broke. Also some other part needs replacing. But actually, all it means is another £70 parts on top of the £550 clutch job, so final bill is £620, not £750. I was worried when he said 'bad news' and 'gearbox', I thought uh oh, new gearbox needed.Thank god that's not the case! Car should be ready end of today he said. He also mentioned that the slave cylinder is external. I'm not sure why he mentioned it, I suppose that means if it goes again the gearbox doesn't need to come out perhaps.

So now I'm wondering what caused the ignition to often make a loud screeching noise over the past year and not engage when turning the key, if it's not the flywheel. The starter motor had been changed three times by my mechanic when trying to fix it, so it can't be the starter. Oh well, I'll have to see if it still does it, or maybe it's cured now.

OpenToSuggestions · 5 Jan 2011 at 12:56

Merlin5 said:
Garage just rang. They'd taken gearbox out and confirmed single flywheel, but said it doesn't need replacing, it looks fine. So that's good news.

I wish all garages were this honest!

MikeHiow · 5 Jan 2011 at 12:57

Well the slave cylinder being external means you did not need to take the gearbox off to do it. (probably)

I'd love to know what bearing broke, as the only thing I can think that would be immediately obvious would be the clutch release bearing, which should have been supplied with your new clutch and cost nothing to install.

Merlin5 · 5 Jan 2011 at 13:01

MikeHiow said:
Well the slave cylinder being external means you did not need to take the gearbox off to do it. (probably)

I'd love to know what bearing broke, as the only thing I can think that would be immediately obvious would be the clutch release bearing, which should have been supplied with your new clutch and cost nothing to install.

Well, my description and understanding of the faults are not very good, I took the phone call half asleep anyway.

But from what he described, the gearbox needed to come out to replace some bearing that was apparently broken inside the gearbox, and something else connected with the gearbox I think, but I'l confirm better detail later when I have the car back.

scottg17 · 5 Jan 2011 at 14:57

Result! hope its sorted good mate

Merlin5 · 5 Jan 2011 at 15:34

Thanks, so do I.

Well, I'm collecting the car in an hour, but here's something I don't get. The garage rang me regarding the intermittent starting, and they say it's the bendix in the starter motor not 'throwing in' fast enough after the motor turns. They've put my starter motor back as it still works, but just intermittently. I can live with it for now. I rang my mobile mechanic who fitted the starter motor over a year ago. He uses reconditioned starter motors. But that would mean my old starter motor which had this problem, plus 3 replacement reconditioned starter motors would all have the same bendix issue. Is that even possible? So the garage say it's the starter motor, and my mobile mechanic suspected it more likely to be the flywheel. What the hell? So I'm still at a loss as to the real problem. Since the garage said a brand new starter motor would be needed, I can only suppose they must be confident that's the problem, but it seems crazy that 4 starter motors could all have had the same problem, doesn't it?

MikeHiow · 5 Jan 2011 at 15:40

I do not see how it could be the flywheel - it would be obvious if the teeth were damaged and I can't see the garage lying about its condition when they have the opportunity to sell you one easily whilst your gearbox is off.

How well do your trust your mobile mechanic? And is he a proper mechanic or just some bloke who has a rough idea about cars? Are you sure he's actually changing the starter motor at all?

MikeHunt79 · 5 Jan 2011 at 15:40

It's possible that it could be a bad start motor solenoid not doing it's job...

Merlin5 · 5 Jan 2011 at 15:56

MikeHiow said:
I do not see how it could be the flywheel - it would be obvious if the teeth were damaged and I can't see the garage lying about its condition when they have the opportunity to sell you one easily whilst your gearbox is off.

How well do your trust your mobile mechanic? And is he a proper mechanic or just some bloke who has a rough idea about cars? Are you sure he's actually changing the starter motor at all?

I agree with you about the flywheel. But I've used my mobile mechanic for years, and he's always done great work. Mostly servicing tbh, but also replaced bits when needed. And on two ocassions when I bought cars, like this one and my previous car, I took him along (paid him for his time) and he helped me choose good ones and told me which ones to steer clear of.

MikeHunt79 said:
It's possible that it could be a bad start motor solenoid not doing it's job...

Would the solenoid be in the starter motor, or something separate that attaches to it? If it's in the starter motor, that would still mean 4 dodgy solenoids. If it's separate, perhaps you're right. I'll ask the garage when I go there. I so hate being an ignorant punter who knows nothing about cars.

MikeHunt79 · 5 Jan 2011 at 16:11

Merlin5 said:
Would the solenoid be in the starter motor, or something separate that attaches to it? If it's in the starter motor, that would still mean 4 dodgy solenoids. If it's separate, perhaps you're right. I'll ask the garage when I go there. I so hate being an ignorant punter who knows nothing about cars.

I don't own a 307 so I don't really know if the solenoid is a part of the starter motor or not, but I've had a problem where the feed to the solenoid was bad meaning it wouldn't completely engage, you'd hear a click but no power would go to the starter motor... It could be one of 3 things at fault here... 1) Starter motor 2) Solenoid 3) Wiring/switchgear leading to the solenoid...

Your best bet would be to get an auto electrician do a few tests, it shouldn't be too hard if he knows how to use a multimeter...

EDIT: The solenoid will look like a small Coke can if you want to see if it's a part of the starter motor.

Merlin5 · 5 Jan 2011 at 18:25

Wow, new clutch feels amazing, so light and easy to push down. In the end, it cost me even less, £597.27, because I forgot about the 5% AA discount :cool:

Very good garage, I'd recommend them, particularly if you're an AA member. I can of course only speak of the finchley branch, but very polite and helpful service. http://www.nationwideautocentres.co.uk/Home/

Well, he said it's definitely the starter motor and not the solenoid or anything else, so I'll go with that. Started first time anyway. We'll see how it goes. He said to keep an eye on my nearside front wheel bearing which he said is noisy. I said to him I noticed a whining sound whenever I steer right, he said that's it, the bearing. So now I know.

I brought the dead soldiers home and took photos for those of you interested.

Through wear and tear, the gearbox nose cone, fork, and bearing needed replacing, they were totally fubared, hence why the gearbox had to come out. So he put in a new 3 piece clutch kit, new slave cylinder, fork, nose cone and bearing.

Clutch plate.You can see that the bearing had pushed the teeth of the plate out of alignment.

Slave Cylinder

Gearfork, sheered and bent.

Gearfork, other side.

Gear nose cone broken and warped bearing.