Baldurs Gate 1 Expansion

[Squink]

It's not out of place. If games can adress issues related to morality, social structures or inequality they can adress sexuality too. You're not getting spoon fed anything, games are not educational tools, they are a reflection our society.

I disagree with all of this. They are called games for a reason. They are a method of escape. I have no idea what you mean by them being a reflection of society. They aren't and there's absolutely no need for them to be.

If I wanted any exposure to left wing hand wringing about people who hate themselves I'll go and read the Guardian. They can keep it out of my hobbies and pastimes.

 

[FoxEye]

I disagree with all of this. They are called games for a reason. They are a method of escape. I have no idea what you mean by them being a reflection of society. They aren't and there's absolutely no need for them to be.

If I wanted any exposure to left wing hand wringing about people who hate themselves I'll go and read the Guardian. They can keep it out of my hobbies and pastimes.

Perhaps we should have SJW themes in tennis matches. Before Djokovic starts serving, the umpire should give a short speech about some SJW issue or other.

After all, if it exists in reality, and therefore should exist in all our entertainment, then it should exist in tennis, snooker, etc

They should get Hamilton to talk about SJW issues in his comms to the team in the pit lane

 

[No1newts]

I thought he was engaging in a lively debate with you on matter over which you both disagree. If by "can't be reasoned with" you mean "won't agree with my side of the argument", by all means leave the thread

Personally I think this is all a load of chuff. If the writer wants to bring her own viewpoints into a game she presumably wants me to buy, don't expect me to cough up my money to have PC issues rammed down my throat. If they are happy to have lower uptake on their game because of it and therefore lower (if any) profits, they can knock themselves out.

No it's the internet all over rather than foxeye in particular, people plant their flag and that's that, st least IRL there can be reasoning on the Internet there never is so I just avoid post wars as they are pointless though I'm sure he feels the same about the situation

 

[Squink]

No it's the internet all over rather than foxeye in particular, people plant their flag and that's that, st least IRL there can be reasoning on the Internet there never is so I just avoid post wars as they are pointless though I'm sure he feels the same about the situation

Most of the time I'm debating something online or irl, I don't go in looking for the win. Most people aren't open to changing their mind on anything worth debating. The point is to enjoy the debate, rather than expect to convert the other party.

That's my take on it at least

 

[No1newts]

I agree, I love a good debate but not over the Internet as there's no real discussion it's just people unloading back and forth. IRL I love a good discussion more tan anything else, especially when people are quite fundamentally opposed. Love arguing with my mates feminist missus who is extreme left, that's always interesting

 

[mid_gen]

And is this character and her tansexuality intrinsic to the story line or any side quests, or is it a character who doesn't advance the game in anyway & has just been shoehorned into the game for SJW reasons?

If you're such a delicate soul that a few lines of optional dialogue about a trans character offends you that much, then don't buy it. Better yet, go write a tumblr blog about how much it upsets you.

 

[FoxEye]

If you're such a delicate soul that a few lines of optional dialogue about a trans character offends you that much, then don't buy it. Better yet, go write a tumblr blog about how much it upsets you.

The fact that it also angered trans people shows that it was simply done very, very badly. Not integrated organically with the game or the story.

Basically you click on this character and get told: "Hi! I'm your friendly transgender NPC. What transgender issues would you like to discuss today?"

Perhaps if the writer was more organic in her writing, and less "I've got to shoe-horn this in somehow," it would have been better received.

It could be that she's just a terrible writer, and is using SJW as a defense tactic to disguise her crappy writing skills. "Oh they don't like it because it talks to their conscience" instead of "Oh they think my writing is ****."

 

[Rifte]

The fact that it also angered trans people shows that it was simply done very, very badly. Not integrated organically with the game or the story.

****."

The fact that such a minor and possibly clumsy point 'angers' or 'offends' them at all blows my mind.

 

[Squink]

The fact that such a minor and possibly clumsy point 'angers' or 'offends' them at all blows my mind.

They are probably 19 years old, at some form of learning establishment and have a hugely inflated feeling of self worth where everything is read and reread in order to derive something to be offended at.

 

[Rifte]

They are probably 19 years old, at some form of learning establishment and have a hugely inflated feeling of self worth where everything is read and reread in order to derive something to be offended at.

Completely agree. I like to think that the transgenders that are grossly 'offended' and pitchfork 'angry' do not represent the majority of the transgender population.

This minority of this minority group seem to believe that there is some sort of entitlement to be protected from anything (however minor and irrelevant......and this .....is unbelievably minor and also unintentional) that they might disagree with.

If they are capable of getting angered and offended by something as minor as this, they need to take a sensor check and a check on perspective. How the hell do they function in the real world away from their keyboard warrior alter ego????

 

[mid_gen]

About time people in the industry just came out and confronted this vocal minority of easily-offended children that they can create games however they damn well please.

Really sad part is though, that some of the more emotionally-stunted members of that minority are quite dangerous psychopaths, as we will no doubt see a campaign of harassment get under way against this writer.

 

[Neil79]

While many players have posted about good experiences with the game, a large number of complaints have arisen, focused on a number of bugs with the expansion. Players have reportedly encountered repeated crashes, losses of equipment when importing characters as well as major multiplayer bugs. Other complaints have focused on the quality of voice acting and overall writing, and the game breaking old mods.

However, the major controversy relates to the inclusion of some minor lines of dialogue relating to a character’s status as transgender. Many negative user reviews complain about this supposed hijacking by a “social justice warrior,”

“I haven’t played yet but from what I’ve been reading the devs are begging for positive reviews after they infuriated the community by trying to pander to the LGBT community.”

“The SJW’s have taken hold of Baldur’s Gate. You can’t even roleplay an evil character any more and claim to want to rip the flesh off of their transgender bones and eat their transgender intestines. You will be banned.”

http://www.retrogamer.net/blog_post/baldurs-gate-siege-of-dragonspear-attracts-controversy

 

[FoxEye]

Completely agree. I like to think that the transgenders that are grossly 'offended' and pitchfork 'angry' do not represent the majority of the transgender population.

This minority of this minority group seem to believe that there is some sort of entitlement to be protected from anything (however minor and irrelevant......and this .....is unbelievably minor and also unintentional) that they might disagree with.

If they are capable of getting angered and offended by something as minor as this, they need to take a sensor check and a check on perspective. How the hell do they function in the real world away from their keyboard warrior alter ego????

I think you're slightly missing the point, as is mid_gen.

People on /both/ sides of the divide are complaining. The trans community and the non-trans community.

The way the character was written clearly shows that the writer was shoe-horning her in for the sake of it.

Indeed the writer said as much herself. "If people think this is fake or forced, I don't care." Her own words.

The point is if you want to address issues like this you need to do it well. You need to be clever. You need to have a character that is more than just a one-dimensional soap-box character - a conduit for the writer's own political leanings.

And mid_gen: whilst you can make whatever game you like, and I support your right to creative freedom, remember... we have the right to vote with our wallets. If devs want to get preachy, if devs want to use their games as a vehicle for political point making, then expect those who don't share your opinions to simply avoid your games in future. Or get refunds, as is happening here.

I support freedom of speech and expression, but I do not support the idea that we have to listen to you.

 

[Rifte]

I think you're slightly missing the point, as is mid_gen.

People on /both/ sides of the divide are complaining. The trans community and the non-trans community.

The way the character was written clearly shows that the writer was shoe-horning her in for the sake of it.

Indeed the writer said as much herself. "If people think this is fake or forced, I don't care." Her own words.

The point is if you want to address issues like this you need to do it well. You need to be clever. You need to have a character that is more than just a one-dimensional soap-box character - a conduit for the writer's own political leanings.

I get all of that buddy, but my point is why all of the anger over something so minor? It should be written well because the quality of the game deserves it, as with every bit of script that the game has. Writers and game developers should not have to walk on eggshells to pander to some oversensitive individual, they should be concerned over quality, not PC. Feedback because the script is poor, not because someone got hurt over it.

 

[Neil79]

I get all of that buddy, but my point is why all of the anger over something so minor? It should be written well because the quality of the game deserves it, as with every bit of script that the game has. Writers and game developers should not have to walk on eggshells to pander to some oversensitive individual, they should be concerned over quality, not PC.

That's another issue, the game isn't written well........

 

[Rifte]

That's another issue, the game isn't written well........

Now that I agree with!

Still enjoying it though!

 

[Ayahuasca]

Excellent memories of this game as a youth.

Is the expansion any good then? Don't give a crap about transgenders or social justice warriors being offended.

 

[Rifte]

Excellent memories of this game as a youth.

Is the expansion any good then? Don't give a crap about transgenders or social justice warriors being offended.

...and back on topic.

I am enjoying it buddy, but to be honest anything in the D&D universe is an insta purchase for me. The EE editions don't really enhance the experience much IMO, but another 25 hours or so of my mis spent youth is always a good thing.

 

[FoxEye]

Excellent memories of this game as a youth.

Is the expansion any good then? Don't give a crap about transgenders or social justice warriors being offended.

From what I have read about the previous revamps, they were buggy messes with terrible writing. What Neil just posted is that this is more of the same.

Basically, re-play original BG or just keep your memories. These "enhanced" editions were just exercises in cashing in on the BG name. Since EA now owns Bioware, most of us saw that coming anyhow.

 

[Rifte]

From what I have read about the previous revamps, they were buggy messes with terrible writing. What Neil just posted is that this is more of the same.

Basically, re-play original BG or just keep your memories. These "enhanced" editions were just exercises in cashing in on the BG name. Since EA now owns Bioware, most of us saw that coming anyhow.

Writing AFAIK is the same as the originals because its the same game, so the experience should be the same.

If they can justify a 15 or 20 quid price tag on an edition that doesnt add much more is another question altogether. The originals are cheaper and can be modded with widescreen etc to 'enhance' them so the enhancements are not real value IMO.

The original does have the black pit add on and a few additional quests, but nothing to get the credit card out for though.