We've already gone way off topic, but the masterplug I've listed has "Protection: 2 x MOV + GDT"
Basic things that could improve your ADSL / VDSL connection.
- Thread starter Admetos
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We've already gone way off topic, but the masterplug I've listed has "Protection: 2 x MOV + GDT"
There is no fire risk. The UK has one of the most heavily regulated consumer electrical protection systems in the world, probably THE most heavily regulated. If anything was a fire hazard it would have banned years ago.
Regarding EMI, My father, who is a radio amateur, and who has equipment that is measurably impacted by EMI over the mains will not run anything off AC. Everything is powered from massive battery packs wired directly into the DC power of the transmitters, receivers and amplifiers. Not only that but the mains runs themselves throughout the entire house are shielded. I'm sure there is something in EMI when when talking about wireless communications, but in general it's irrelevant to most people.
And yet the fire risk still exists all over the world. Problem is not the technology (MOVs). Problem is that five pence protector parts are too small to increase profits. A transient, made irrelevant by protection already inside all electronics, can also cause a catastrophic failure in tiny joule MOVs.
A thermal fuse exists to disconnect those MOVs while leaving a potentially destructive surge fully connected to electronics. No problem. That same surge is too tiny to damage electronics. Due to international standards that required electronics to be robust.
MOVs create another problem - high capacitance. MOVs substantially weaken a DSL signal. GDTs do not. GDTs (and other technologies such as semiconductor solutions) do not create this high capacitance problem.
Third, that protector does nothing useful if connected too far from earth ground electrodes. Since protectors never do protection. Protectors are only connecting devices to what harmlessly 'absorbs' hundreds of thousands of joules. Note that number. Effective protectors must be rated for surges that can do damage: hundreds of thousands of joules. GDTs and other technologies only do something useful then every incoming wire is connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth. For same reasons why this is necessary for radio equipment.
What happens when that tiny hundreds joule MOV protector tries to 'block' or 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules. And then that high capacitance device only diminishes a DSL signal.
Four, much of that advise (twisted pair wire, disconnecting other wires or connect those other wires via a filter, etc) is routinely done in facilities where engineers (not wild speculation) are making decisions. DSL must have a direct connection to the DSLAM. Nothing must electrically block or tap that signal. Any wire to an analog phone must go through a filter to, in essence, block that DSL signal. Any device between the subscriber and that DSLAM (ie loading coils) must be removed. All to protect the strength of that DSL radio wave.
Five, another tool to also locate and alleviate problems is a longwave (AM type) radio. Walking around with a portable radio (tuned to a distant station) can locate devices that might be creating radio frequency interference with DSL signal. One must always identify a problem long before even asking for a solution. That radio is a powerful diagnostic tools.
MOVs (that are too small) do create house fires. Should never be used on any communication wires that involve frequencies above audio. In fact, MOVs were not used on hardwired telephone wires even fifty years ago where engineers were making decisions. Due to their excessively high capacitance. Protectors only do something useful when connected less than 3 meters to earth ground electrodes.
And yet, despite all that, and that fact that pretty much every house in the UK has at least one of these, they don't actually appear to be causing any fires.
The UK Fire Services are concerned about over-loading the fusing on extensions but they never mention surge protectors. Given that according to you they're a massive hazard, don't you think that's a bit odd?
Or is it the case that the reason they're not bothered about surge protectors is that there hasn't been a single surge protector related fire in the UK since records began?
Because surges are extremely rare. One might happen in seven years. In places such as UK, one typically does not suffer one in 20 years.
Most of the time, that protector (that is doing no protection) will disconnect protector parts, as fast as possible. Leave a surge fully connected to appliances. Where is protection? Profits are protected. Failing on a surge that cannot damage appliances gets naive consumers to recommend it and buy more.
Sometimes that thermal fuse does not trip fast enough. APC admitted that some 15 million protectors must be removed immediately due to at least seven hundred house fires that were known. Or learn what the fire marshal in Gaston County learned after their tiny joule protectors almost cause fires in their fire house: http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/Pharr/INVESTIGATING SURGE SUPPRESSOR FIRES.doc
Any appliance that might create one fire in 30 years is dangerous. Is removed immediately. Tiny joule protectors are among worst offenders. Or are you telling us that cruise ships do not ban those fire creating devices?
An honest denial would also discuss numbers. Numbers say protectors can create fires. Its tiny joule numbers not only say why. Tiny joule numbers also say no effective protection. No problem. Add five pence protector parts. Then sell it for 20 or 50 pounds. To pay for a massive disinformation campaign that includes magazine articles of disinformation.
In the UK you don't hear much about this, however in USA there are plenty of reports of surge projectors burning out.
I can only assume the UK standards are tighter, and the cheap USA surge protectors are not as safe.
Here is one report, admittingly from 2015 but there are others.
https://www.click2houston.com/consu...es-instead-of-preventing-them-homeowners-say/
Sorry - you can't shift the discussion to the USA. You stated that surge protectors by their very existence, were a fire hazard. Please just accept that surge protectors in the UK are not a fire hazard.
Again, the USA has many issues that do not apply in the UK. Please accept that surge protectors are not a fire hazard in the UK.
Back to the Tacima CS947, would anyone like an interesting story about how well these can condition mains.
I had a mate with all noise issues on his separates HiFi system, he was getting pops and noise into the speakers, conclusion at the time were coming from his fridge.
Anyhow installed the Tacima on his entire HiFi separates, immediately notice an improvement in sound quality. Weeks later he confirms all the hum and pops have all gone, so that is success the Tacima has done it's job.
Months later I get chatting, it turns out his house has 1960's original rubber coated electric wiring, it was so bad the rubber had perished in the walls, and electric beginning to short inside the walls! British gas homecare (they also do electrics) come to his house and pretty much condemned his electrics. To fix has to remove plaster from walls, total rewire, new fuse box.
The point I'm making, even a house with condemned electric wiring, it worked and helped fixed issues with his HiFi.
I had a mate with all noise issues on his separates HiFi system, he was getting pops and noise into the speakers, conclusion at the time were coming from his fridge.
Anyhow installed the Tacima on his entire HiFi separates, immediately notice an improvement in sound quality. Weeks later he confirms all the hum and pops have all gone, so that is success the Tacima has done it's job.
Months later I get chatting, it turns out his house has 1960's original rubber coated electric wiring, it was so bad the rubber had perished in the walls, and electric beginning to short inside the walls! British gas homecare (they also do electrics) come to his house and pretty much condemned his electrics. To fix has to remove plaster from walls, total rewire, new fuse box.
The point I'm making, even a house with condemned electric wiring, it worked and helped fixed issues with his HiFi.
Same standards and designs all over the world. UK has much fewer surges. And similar protector designs. Europe protection parts only have a higher let-trough voltage number. And same joule numbers.
Effective protection (as found in all BT facilities) always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Telcos all over the world (installing same solutions) suffer maybe 100 surges with each thunderstorm. And no damage. This applies to protection everywhere in the world. Same requirements apply everywhere in the world.
Facilities, everywhere in the world, that cannot have DSL and phone damage, use the whole house solution. Do not waste money on tiny joules protectors that are marketed to the most easily scammed consumers.
Reliable DSL is always about a direct connection from DSLAM to CPE. Protectors with MOVs diminish that signal. Protectors, without a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to earth, do no effective DSL protection.
View the entire circuit in that Tacima at https://www.whathifi.com/tacima/cs947/review . The entire filtering is done by a tiniest inductor, high capacitance MOVs, and what look like more capacitors. IOW any line filter (that must be inside all electronics hardware) does same or more. Implying his audio equipment was defectively designed. Was mising that required line filter.
Power conditioner that actually do serous power conditioning must have passive components that are quite large. Those filter components means a conditioner that weighs at least 5 kilograms. That Tacima filter must already be inside all electronics before it even converts AC electricity to DC.
Yes that makes sense, the UK mains utility is higher quality then USA.
Back to using a mains conditioner (the Tacima) on my modem / router & DECT phone? Am I being over cautious, or can interference from the mains effect domestic phone lines and DSL?
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I would suggest you are looking in the wrong direction.
A good quality faceplate filter at the master socket together with ensuring that only extensions that are absolutely required are connected and that those that are connected are connected to the filtered side of the faceplate is sufficient to mitigate any noise that could be introduced from the phone side. In the past, third party faceplates might have been needed, but the latest ones from BT are as good as anything else. Keep in mind that such filters are specifically designed to ensure that only signals at voice frequencies get through on the phone line, so unless the faceplate is faulty nothing from your DECT phone can affect the DSL signal.
Also, noise from the mains is unlikely to make it through the PSU and from there through the modem and onto the phone line. While the wall-warts that come with modems and routers are not always of the best construction, they will always contain components to smooth ripple in the DC they output. Plus you've then got to consider that your theoretical noise has to somehow get through the digital side of the modem first, before it can cause an issue with the analogue side.
However, RF noise can be picked up by poor quality leads from the master socket to the modem - the suggestion above of using a short, good quality twisted pair RJ11 cable from the master socket to the modem is usually sufficient to mitigate this.
No difference in mains quality or what is on electric mains. Only factor that is different - UK uses underground wires. What does exist everywhere are LED bulbs that generate RF frequencies. Modems (ie a neighbors) that use power lines by transmitting RF frequencies on their wires. And so many other noise generators that did not exist 30 years ago. Its not the mains. It is what we are powering from (and inserting anomalies into) the mains.
Again, if a line filter is needed, then plenty exist. An example of line filters from only by one manufacturer https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/produc...ySOmz4ipEJSasOkbnyGiJIALTxFqTLgLFIZcjIBsTMa6A
Electronics, by design, must make such noise irrelevant. First that power is filtered (ie line filter). Then all frequencies are converted to DC. Then filtered again. Then converted to high frequency spikes that exceed 300 volts. From that, galvanic isolation, regulators, and filters convert that to low DC voltages (ie 5, 3.3) that do not vary by 0.2 volts. How does noise get through a properly designed supply? It doesn't. It gets into electronics via other paths.