Bass from Sub and surround issue. Lucid may help here.

Droolinggimp

Droolinggimp

Droolinggimp

Soldato
Joined
16 May 2004
Posts
6,918
Location
Derby
Hi. I have got a ageing Denon AVR 1909 surround receiver. It does DD and DTS HD sound modes and 7.1

I have just downgraded (in size and power but being fairly new, they sound hell of a lot better) my 5 speaker. 2 fronts, center and surrounds. This is set up for 5.1 the other 2 rears are still the older mission speakers which are still connected to the Denon but rarely used due to not much 7.1 and the XBOX One doesn't support it properly.

Anyway. The 5 speakers are these Pioneer beauties. The reason I went for these are from the reviews, budget and the general size and look. I am not into getting the best, but gear that sounds good to me within my budget and these sound very good indeed.

Right. Onto the issue at hand. My sub is an old Sony one which came as part of a package years ago. R0B75 could possibly tell you what package it came from. The sub itself is great, packs a good punch and fills the room. Well sort of.

Here lies my problem.

I can hear/tell where the bass is coming from whilst on my XBOX One and watching movies. I have googled this problem and subsequently jumped into my Denon settings and changed the crossover settings for the speakers.

The new speakers have a range of 100 Hz to 20Khz.
The sub has 50Hz to 60Hz (this is on the back-following the voltage. May have nothing to do with what I am asking but I'll stick in here anyway)

The speakers are very clear and crisp and I have the center speaker at +7 level. The rest are set at 0. I have the sub volume set at max on the unit itself and use the Denon to apply the right (to me any way) volume.

The current Xover settings are as follows.

F 110 Hz
C 100 Hz
S 110 Hz
SB 110 HZ
LFE 80Hz (sub mode is LFE and MAIN)

This setup sounds very good, nice vocals, sound effects. A lot clear then my other speakers. Now, the bass is good but I can really hear it in my left ear. It is situated next to the sofa pointing into the middle of the room but at a slight angle. If I get chance I will MS paint a lay out.

Can anyone give me some tips on getting this bass how it should be.

If you require more info etc please just ask.

Edit: Here is my room layout.

room.png
 
Last edited:
You know what? I never even thought of that. There are a few places I could try. I have a unit that is the length of the tv wall so next to the tv is out but could always put it in the right corner in front of the unit. It will be sort of hidden as I have another unit on Door wall.
Edit: I have place it opposite corner to what I said. The bass is now central and coming from all speaks if you get what I mean. Sounds a whole lot better. Still would like to know how to go about the xover settings though as I am sure I could improve on what I have set up.
 
Last edited:
While low frequencies are suppose to be omni-directional, my real world experience is that you can still at times tell where it is located. However I have always thought that the best setups are where you can see a sub in the room, but you cant hear it. What I mean is that your ears perceive it as an extension of the two main speakers rather than a single entity. I agree with what Ramond says and I would also think about putting it between the two main speakers on the tv wall. I would also avoid any corners as it can cause lots of boom (unless thats what you like) and also I have seen people raise subs off the floor plane to help tighten it up a little.

One other trick that I have heard people trying is to put the sub at the listening spot and to then go around the room listening for what sounds best. When youve found that put the sub in that position and see what it sounds like from your seat. Ive never tried this my self so not sure if it would work.

Another option is to daisy chain two subs or even four to balance it out around the room, but I always thought there was better things to spend money on.
 
Having read the replies I thought I should show you a pic of the TV section.

Tv%20and%20sub%20issue.jpg


As you can see there is no room to put the sub next to or infront of the tv... However. what would you say if it went into the unit itself. The middle section where the Center speaker is with the glass bowl and two photo frames, the sub would fit, on its side quite happily. I have plenty of soft pads to use for the sub in the unit would that make a difference?

The center speaker would be mounted on the wall below the bottom of the TV and the two Fronts will be on the wall half way the height of the tv.

Or is having a sub inside/on a unit a no-no?:confused:

Edit: forward facing sub btw, no ports on rear or bottom.
 
Last edited:
Don't put it in a cabinet, it'll be awful.

I can see your problem now...It doesn't have to be there but that's the general recommendation.

What about beside the sofa on the right?
 
Last edited:
It was next to my sofa before thats when I could hear where the bass came from.(I moved it to that angle this morning to see if it helped with the sound) I have just temporarily placed it in front of the center unit and it sounds even better. I tried some heavy dance music from youtube and also tried a one of the transformer films to hear how it sounded. The transformers transforming was amazing. The bass and beat from the dance tunes sounded good too.

Not sure what to do now.

In what way would it sound awful if it was on the unit.?
 
Last edited:
I though that. The units are solid and very sturdy, yeah they are Besta Ikea units but still very good. I may give it a try to see how it goes, even if it is just to place it on top to see if there are any vibrations and rattles.

Edit: I did have some Acoustic Solution floor standers on the units where the little fronts are now. They are what I replaced. There was no rattles or vibrations from them and they were very bassy for music.
 
Moving the sub around the room will potentially help to smooth out the bass response, but I think the main issue is a limitation of the Sony sub. In short, it is playing too high up the frequency range either because of harmonics or some issue with the settings and this is adding to a problem that the Sony sub doesn't actually go that low. BTW, the 50/60Hz on the back is the mains frequencies it will work with. Usually these things are multi-voltage eg 120-230V @ 50/60Hz, so that they can be sold across Europe, the Middle East and Africa. This trading zone is referred to as EMEA.

Google doesn't seem to help with R0B75, or not that I've found on a quick scan, so if you have a link to the original system or can put up so correctly focussed shots of the controls and connections on the sub then that will help.
 
Can you not just put it infront of the cabinent by the side wall? Its a nice setup with at the front I can see why you would want to keep it. On the other hand, sometimes sound must rein and it could be time for an upgrade and a better rack/place to sort your gear, one which would allow you to put the sub at the front?
 
Lucid. Thanks I shall get a pic up later once I have sobered up showing the sub in all its glory.

Jono. The middle section of the unit is separate from the two larger units on both side. It is screwed into the side units and I think I could take off the bottom of the middle one and the sub would fit, on its side, under the unit. I will have a play later.

Edit: Here is the old package that the sub came with. Link

Subwoofer Speaker
(SA-WMS835)

• Speaker: Active Subwoofer,
Magnetically Shielded,
Acoustically Loaded Bass
Reflex
• Speaker Unit: 8" Woofer
• Frequency Range:
24-200Hz
• Digital Amplifier Section:
200W x 1 (3.75 ohm,
20-200Hz, 0.8% THD)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the link. That was useful :)

The sub has basic controls for volume and a simple 0/180 degree phase switch so there's not really a lot that can be set wrong. Your receiver sets the crossover point and also a trim level for bass relative to the rest of the speakers.

A couple of observations. ... the spec says the frequency range is 24Hz to 200HZ but I do wonder how that was measured (if at all). Second, the main Pioneer speakers extend down to 100Hz. There's no figures for either the sub or speakers about their roll off. This is usually quotes to give an idea of how quickly the sound fades out at the extremes of the frequency ranges. From your set up numbers not it looks like there's not enough of an overlap between the surrounds + centre with the sub. Try 120Hz.

Next, the sub will be contributing quite a bit to the midrange of the Pioneers because they don't go so deep. That means you will hear the bottom end of the frequency range for dialogue. That means you'll be able to tell where the sub is. For that reason alone you should try the sub just plonked down in from of the cabinet as a test. It will integrate better with the front speakers.

Next, I think it's a question of volume. Too much will make the dub easier to locate. Try turning the subs volume down to nothing. Play some music in surround and increase the sub volume until it just fills in the bass but nothing more. It's easy to set subs too loud.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom