BBC plans to help get the nation coding

[philip2009]

The BBC's director general, Tony Hall, has announced plans to "bring coding into every home, business and school in the UK".

It comes 30 years on from a BBC push to make computing mainstream by putting BBC Micro computers in the majority of schools.

In a speech to staff, Mr Hall said that the initiative would launch in 2015.

"We want to inspire a new generation to get creative with coding, programming and digital technology," he said.

Government and technology experts are becoming increasingly worried that vital computing skills are no longer being taught in schools.

Meanwhile interest in higher-education IT and computing courses is falling, giving rise to fears about a massive skills gap.

Rest of article...

Not sure how I feel about this, back in the early 80s microcomputers were a completely new phenomenon that warranted public education but nowadays any Tom, Dick, or Harriet with an Internet connection can educate themselves - if they are so inclined. I don't see much of a barrier to entry for learning about IT so is all this fanfare just an educational fad trying to push square pegs into round holes?

 

[Ryan-3]

I think we should push more into further education, try to expand on what this country is still good at - like our IT, Engineering and Science - before we have nothing left.

 

[Haircut]

It could be good if they teach the right things.
If they get kids to do a bit of HTML and JavaScript then it is as good as useless.

I support the Computing At School initiative as that is designed to teach kids actual computer science
Their document (here) describes what they consider computing and if we can get more kids learning stuff like this similar to how they learn other sciences then that's great.

Computing is the study of how computers and computer systems work, and how they are constructed and programmed, and the foundations of information and computation. It is a discipline, like mathematics or physics, that explores foundational principles and ideas (such as techniques for searching the Web), rather than artefacts (such as particular computer programs), although it may use the latter to illuminate the former.
Its aspects of design, theory and experimentation are drawn from Engineering, Mathematics and Science respectively.

 

[Pho]

Nice idea, both the BBC idea and Computing At School. Computing At School sounds like an introduction to Computer Science which will be far more beneficial.

At school I never had the chance to do the programming modules etc because the teachers couldn't do it. Our school also didn't do electronics until after I'd done my GCSE's, which is a shame as I'd have loved (and still would) to do it :/.

However, speaking today as a developer. Shoo :


(South Park Reference)

 

[Fallen god]

It could be good if they teach the right things.
If they get kids to do a bit of HTML and JavaScript then it is as good as useless.

Whats wrong with teaching kids that. JavaScript done well is very good I believe and it opens the internet.

I would want them to learn some proper OOP programming, with typing and real classes and so on, something like Python would be very good I believe, no PHP as it just teaches you how to do everything in the direst way possible.

 

[Deceptor]

Whats wrong with teaching kids that. JavaScript done well is very good I believe and it opens the internet.

I would want them to learn some proper OOP programming, with typing and real classes and so on, something like Python would be very good I believe, no PHP as it just teaches you how to do everything in the direst way possible.

Actually I think JS/PHP are great languages for that very reason, they allow you to be quick and dirty and get a grasp on the basics pretty easily while allowing you to learn and improve within the same language.

Think of it like any other subject, you don't start English by being thrown into the deep end with grammar/punctuation/formats and so on, nor do you except to be taught quadratic equations in Maths from day one.

Sure, bad techniques would be taught initially but the same is pretty much true for every subject.

 

[Woden]

Not sure how I feel about this, back in the early 80s microcomputers were a completely new phenomenon that warranted public education but nowadays any Tom, Dick, or Harriet with an Internet connection can educate themselves - if they are so inclined. I don't see much of a barrier to entry for learning about IT so is all this fanfare just an educational fad trying to push square pegs into round holes?

With that attitude why have schools at all? Just teach basic English and Google, that's it. If they want to learn anything else they can do so. Imagine the savings! No need for secondary schools or colleges!

Pretty much everything is computerised now, with more and more of everyone's daily life going digital. Not teaching computer science at school, infant school, is just p-lain reckless.

 

[Doraku]

Whats wrong with teaching kids that. JavaScript done well is very good I believe and it opens the internet.

I would want them to learn some proper OOP programming, with typing and real classes and so on, something like Python would be very good I believe, no PHP as it just teaches you how to do everything in the direst way possible.

Python would be brilliant. I was encouraged to programme but no one really helped/taught me.

 

[Haircut]

Whats wrong with teaching kids that. JavaScript done well is very good I believe and it opens the internet.

I would want them to learn some proper OOP programming, with typing and real classes and so on, something like Python would be very good I believe, no PHP as it just teaches you how to do everything in the direst way possible.

There's nothing wrong with that if it's done in the context of a broader introduction to computer science.
What I could see happening is someone showing kids a few webpages, how to do basic HTML and a bit of JavaScript and telling them they can program.

 

[Fallen god]

Actually I think JS/PHP are great languages for that very reason, they allow you to be quick and dirty and get a grasp on the basics pretty easily while allowing you to learn and improve within the same language.

Think of it like any other subject, you don't start English by being thrown into the deep end with grammar/punctuation/formats and so on, nor do you except to be taught quadratic equations in Maths from day one.

Sure, bad techniques would be taught initially but the same is pretty much true for every subject.

I think with programming you really need to teach people how to do things right. I have found learning to just randomly program at university and it just working ****ed me up when I started to actual code. PHP is a ok language but for a first language I would want to teach someone in something strongly typed, that you can just have files with functions in it that it later included and so on. PHP would make it easier to start off with, but once you try do interesting and complicated problems it would make things a lot harder I believe.

My worry would be that kids would just think all programming is like that, and once they try to use most other languages they would be in the place where I was. I really had no idea outside of the basic classes and objects idea of how real programming worked.

Starting with JS is good as you can do it right in the console, you can do fun FE effects that will sure to get kids engaged.

There's nothing wrong with that if it's done in the context of a broader introduction to computer science.
What I could see happening is someone showing kids a few webpages, how to do basic HTML and a bit of JavaScript and telling them they can program.

Yeah I think that would be a nice approach, it just works and gives them very quick feedback. Everyone uses the internet and has some idea of how it works. If you could show a kid, hey in 10mins I can make this nice webpage and they can do it in 1 lesson thats already a good start.

The thing I like about the web is that it is vastly complicated. things are moving incredibly quickly, and most services has some web back end so its good base for most programmers to have.

 

[Deceptor]

I think with programming you really need to teach people how to do things right. I have found learning to just randomly program at university and it just working ****ed me up when I started to actual code. PHP is a ok language but for a first language I would want to teach someone in something strongly typed, that you can just have files with functions in it that it later included and so on. PHP would make it easier to start off with, but once you try do interesting and complicated problems it would make things a lot harder I believe.

My worry would be that kids would just think all programming is like that, and once they try to use most other languages they would be in the place where I was. I really had no idea outside of the basic classes and objects idea of how real programming worked.

I can honestly see your point and somewhat agree with it, JS/PHP is where I first started on my own back when I was 16 (I'm 25 now), and yes I did create some horrific things due to the relaxed nature the languages can present but honestly I think it helped greatly in my core understanding and I was able to easily pick up OO within PHP and feel pretty comfortable with C# and Java.

Of course every one learns differently, I'm just of the opinion a "lesser barrier of entry" is always a good thing to start with and core understanding is key. I've interviewed developers who have a firm grasp of jQuery yet cannot interpret or write raw Javascript themselves which is an awful shame.

 

[robotSocks]

PHP is an abomination - teach kids C++

 

[Fallen god]

I can honestly see your point and somewhat agree with it, JS/PHP is where I first started on my own back when I was 16 (I'm 25 now), and yes I did create some horrific things due to the relaxed nature the languages can present but honestly I think it helped greatly in my core understanding and I was able to easily pick up OO within PHP and feel pretty comfortable with C# and Java.

Of course every one learns differently, I'm just of the opinion a "lesser barrier of entry" is always a good thing to start with and core understanding is key. I've interviewed developers who have a firm grasp of jQuery yet cannot interpret or write raw Javascript themselves which is an awful shame.

Lesser barrier is really needed, and a very fast feedback loop, kids won't code for weeks to change 1 thing. This is where php/js is really good. I have just personally seen a lot of people be able to do things in PHP and then just assume they can code in anything. For example my friend wanted to make an iOS app after he did some php at work, it just didn't end well.

Lucky you picked up on things like OO with PHP which taught you a good bases for moving on too other things.

Mostly what I feel is important is understand some of the basics of programming, while also getting to do something fun. For example, if I asked a lot of my "programmer" friends what is a static variable they would mostly just make up some crap, since no one hardly uses these things in PHP or JS.

PHP is an abomination - teach kids C++

I think C++ is a pretty complicated language to start off with. I do mostly PHP at work and I do just hate it too bits, miss my C++ days.

 

[jubei]

Teachers aren't even allowed to correct more than three mistakes in a child's work. So I guess they better teach some serious debugging else if might also 'be bad for the child's self esteem'.

 

[kierenharrold]

Having computing lessons once a week will not help teach software development, it will just frustrate children and they will give up.

I think a better use would be to push more advanced maths skills and then encourage children who seem interested to join computing lessons.

In my opinion if you want to get kids interested then they need to see the benefits of their work straight away. Mobile development using Objective-C and Java would be the best way to learn.

Both languages are easy to learn. You get kids interest by using their greed against them. Show them that they can quickly make an app and throw it on an app store for £0.69.

 

[The Only Beardy]

I don't think its out of the question for kids to be programming for GCSE's.

If they were aloud to pick a project to complete that they were given two years to complete, then they could be taught the ways to do each step as it goes and as a class they follow their projects through to the final testing and release together. I would also suggest that projects being picked were judged by teacher before they begin as to whether it would be possible for that child to do in the time frame. But I don't see why they couldn't get a fundamental version of snake or pong going. They can go through the design stages with proposals and UML, then the development and then Testing for release...

That way the kids see the whole development life cycle and theyre also opened up to a whole load of jobs that you never hear about in school.