Been over paid, but they want me to pay back the pre deductions amount, where do I stand ?

[KillBoY_UK]

Hi there

I noticed I was over paided in my last two pay slips , I work as a salary but noticed a "shift" amount with no hours or rate, totaling about £1200 from the two months before deductions.

Talked to my HR about it and they confirmed its a mistake and want me to pay it back but that want the pre ductions amount paid back, even though its had deductions for, Tax (PAYE), National insurance pension contributions and student loan repayments.

So the take home from this "mistake" was much less than the amount they want to be paid back. So ill be out of pocket at the end of the day by being honest and pointing out the mistake.

This can't be right surely ?

 

[KillBoY_UK]

No, they're idiots.

To expand:
They need to put the correction through payroll. They can either re-run the incorrect months to recalculate what you should have been paid, or they can deduct the gross amount from your next (or split over your next few) month's pay.

ofc I have no qualms about paying it back (even if the extra does bring me up to market rates) but full amount seems nuts. I told my line manager and he dos'nt know what to do , went to his boss and was told off by a 3rd manager.

Should I talk to the CAB or try and find some legal advice ?

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Are they going to recover the sums you've paid in PAYE, NI, and so on?

They have not said just to sent up a "plan"

here what has been said,

My email to HR

Hi

In short I’ve noticed some unexpected additions to my pay.

For May and June there is a extra “shift” line with no rate or hours and wanted to ask if this a legitimate change to my compensation or a mistake ?

Regards My name

HR/Payrolls reply

Hi My name

Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. It is very much appreciated.

Unfortunately, it appears as though you have been paid shift pay in error. Our Global HRIS team are currently investigating how this has happened.

I can confirm that no further payments for shift will be made to you from July onwards, however, we need to arrange a repayment plan for the sum overpaid, £1,260.35.

We would not expect this to repaid in one go, so we can work with what would be affordable to you and agree a regular, monthly repayment plan.

Please accept our sincere apologies for this and for any inconvenience this may have caused you.

We look forward to hearing from you.


Many thanks


There name

I have not replied to this yet, I did forward it to my line manager (who doesn't know what to do) and his manager stating what I put in my OP

 

[KillBoY_UK]

They can't ask you to pay back an amount they never paid you in the first place, it seems silly that they're asking you to pay back anything tbh.. (is the company struggling that much that a few grand is going to make a material difference) instead they should just deduct it from your next month's pay.

Far from it while the stock price is down (FTSE 250) given we do parts manufacturing business is booming atm, can't make stuff fast enough.

Oh, in that case I'd just ask them to adjust in your next payslip. So long as you haven't overspent off the back of the extra pay.

If they **** it up, then start swinging, but it'll probably be fine: It's a simple adjustment

Prob is the amount quoted they want me to pay back is Gross, while only ever seen the net amount in my take hope so If I pay back the amount they want Ill be poorer than normal pay

Oh, in that case I'd just ask them to adjust in your next payslip. So long as you haven't overspent off the back of the extra pay.

If they **** it up, then start swinging, but it'll probably be fine: It's a simple adjustment

That's what I though it could have been as while I'm on the top end of there brand im still 5-10k below market rate (been look and interviewing for jobs as ive been refused a review) and it was a way to get around the bands limitations. Unfortunately I was wrong.

The worst they (HR/the company) should be proposing is to reduce your salary at the same rate it was overpaid. So you get a reduced salary for two months which then leaves you back where you would have been if they hadn't messed up.

While that would sting that would still be fair but If I pay back the amount I was over paid before deductions ill be poorer than before the mistake was paid as I only gained about 800-900 in take home out of the £1200 they overpaid before deductions

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Mate you're overthinking this. You'll receive "negative pay" to claw this back so everything else will be corrected. Payroll will have done this a million times.

Why are they asking for the full £1200 before full deductions? £1200 was what was my payslip but I only ever got 800/900 so why should I pay back a extra 300+ quid.

Pay roll as also made other mistakes in the past like not including my student loan payments for 9 months (they claim HMRC told them to stop taking payment but they said thats was balls).

 

[KillBoY_UK]

I think you are potentially interpreting "repayment plan" the wrong way. You are assuming that they want you to repay £1200 net but they haven't actually stated this.
All that needs to happen is for them to reduce your gross pay in future payment periods to recoup the £1200. Your net pay will drop by less than £1200.

we need to arrange a repayment plan for the sum overpaid, £1,260.35.

Am I missing something ? as it seem pretty black and white to me that they want the full amount back. I'm not sure how else you can interpret it, looking at the email then sent sent me the reply was sent from payroll, and the CC my site HR as well as the global HR

I can send screenshot of everything if peeps like

I look at my pay slips the over paided amount was the above stated,

fine what could say HMRC will pay be back on the tax but when?, what about the NI contributions, the pension and student loan payments too. Are people really saying I need to be out of pocket and then chancse up several originations to get some of it back again? for a mistake thats not mine

That's nuts.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

It doesn't say anything like that. It says you need to pay it back. And if you overpay tax (which you will do if they do take it net) it will be refunded by HMRC.

What'll happen is you'll get paid usual salary gross, say 4000 - then get the 1200 deducted, so your gross for that period will be 2800 and tax/student loan/deductions will be taken from the 2800. No 'normal' pay roll is going to make a mistake and then ask you to pay back the amount net.

Edit: forgot RTI is now a thing, they should be able to take it net and still make sure to fix your Tax/NI contribution. https://www.accountwise.co.uk/correcting-an-overpayment-of-wages/#:~:text=Where the overpayment is deducted,National Insurance have been deducted).&text=The employer should keep a,net pay from the employer.

Edit2: here is how Barnet council handle it (page 3) - recovery is always made gross.
https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/node/2323

I trust what you are saying I don't trust then going by what they have stated so far

 

[KillBoY_UK]

What you are missing is that one way it could be interpreted is that they want to get their £1260.35 GROSS pay back. There is no need to get HMRC involved, or pension, or student loans. You don't need to get any money from them. Your employer just needs to give them less money in future, just like they need to give you less money in future.

All that needs to happen is for them to reduce your future gross pay by £1260.35. What they want to discuss is a suitable schedule, instead of just docking £1260.35 from your next pay slip (maybe you spent the advanced monies and live from one paycheque to the next).

Effectively what you've had is an advance in future pay. You are not "out of pocket", quite the opposite in fact - you are "in pocket" because you've been given money you haven't earned yet now the employer just needs to offset your future earnings to correct it. Because it doesn't span a tax year, it should make things easy.

The key thing to clarify them is what they mean by "repayment" - my assumption is that any competent payroll department would proceed as I have suggested above. It's arguably ambiguous terminology as really the 'repayment' isn't you paying anyone any money, it is them paying you less money.

But I've not been in pocket the 1200 quid due to automatic deductions but they are asking for 1200quid.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Did they explicitly say "we are seeking to reclaim the 1200 quid from you"? Or that they wanted to get back the total 1200? Difference is there isn't it.

In all this time you probably could have got the answer from your payroll dept tbh!

I've already put in tbe thread the email I got form pay roll.

I'm.get no support from my line managers or my HR department so I have to be careful with what I say ans I have to take what they say on face value

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Yes, I know this... I was pointing out it didn't state at any point it was collecting it specifically from you did it?

, we need to arrange a repayment plan for the sum overpaid, £1,260.35.

That have not mentioned anyone else bar me, They have CC'ed my site HR in that reply

 

[KillBoY_UK]

I'd be absolutely amazed if they were planning to do anything other than reduce your future payslips, at a 'plan' rate to suit you and them, to correct the error on the gross side of the calculation whereby all the tax/NI etc. will sort itself out as you'll be getting paid less and so paying less tax/NI etc. to compensate for what you 'overpaid'.

I can't see anything in their communications that you've pasted here that suggests they'd intend to do otherwise.

Well we just have to see, im awaiting clarification from them.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

The only way they could take the full £1200 is if they asked you to send them a cheque.

They'll just be reducing your future payslips (before tax) at a fair rate that you both agree on - so your deductions will be less in those months to compensate. Doing it in any other way would cause havoc with HMRC.

In fact, it's nice of this person from payroll to consider your welfare rather than just taking the full £1200 out of next months pay.

I think legally they can only deduct 10-20% of my salary a month at most