Been scammed!

[Transform_IT]

Hi guys,

I feel a right idiot. I purchased, what I thought, was a mint car! I saw the advert on Autotrader and it was described as being immaculate etc. I did a HPI check and MOT history check and everything came back ok. I phoned the private seller and had a long chat regarding the vehicle. They assured me there was no rust or rot. We agreed on a price in principal due to the vehicle being at the other end of the country and I didn't want to miss the opportunity to buy it. I had a guy from Shiply collect the vehicle immediately and once it was on the back of his loader, I paid the seller via Paypal friends and family (my choice as their bank account had reached its cut off for payments) and I paid using my credit card. The car was delivered to me, and on initial inspection, it certainly looked like an amazing buy! Very clean. I took it for a test drive and everything worked as it should and the car felt very solid. I joined an owners club Facebook group and uploaded a photo of my recent purchase. That's when the bad news was delivered. I received a PM from an individual telling me they had sold the car less than two weeks ago as spares or repair due to the car being structurally unsafe. He then sent me photos of the underneath of the car with a quote from a specialist totalling to nearly £4000. He then sent me a link to his Gumtree ad where the car is advertised as spares or repair with the problems regarding the chassis etc. The car was sold for £850 to the guy I bought it off, with a written receipt stating spares or repair. I was told the vehicle was being sold quickly as he was relocating to Spain and wanted it gone... now I feel a wally and a little bit sick, as I have had my two young kids in the car!

I have sufficient evidence to prove the previous owner knew of the issues with the car, along with photos of the underside, the advert which he purchased it from and a signed receipt stating spares or repair.

I purchased the vehicle for £1499 and paid £289 to the Shiply driver to deliver it.
He paid £850 and re-listed it on another platform 9 days later.

I have messaged the guy, explaining the above situation and that I would like to reach an amicable resolution. However, my mind is a little bit blown! I know I could go down the route of small claims court, but Could I also go down the route of contacting my credit card company? I don't know where to start and where I stand.

I hope somebody can maybe lend me some good advice surrounding this, rather than mocking me. I know if it's too good to be true, it usually is. But, yeah... I messed up and I am gutted.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Transform_IT]

Just had a phone call from the chap - apparently, I'm a numpty that's trying to get the car for a reduced price and the previous owner, according to him, is the scammer. The advert he purchased it from, stating SPARES or REPAIRS meant nothing to him and the only reason he is selling is due to not being able to get insured, not the initial lie which was he was moving to Spain... Hustled.

 

[Transform_IT]

Sounds like fraud to me. Plus endangering life. I would get advice from a good solicitor. You are only going get serve you right for chasing a good deal when asking for advice on forums. However, the reality is the scammer has endangered you and your family. Surely, there's a criminal matter as the scammer knew he was selling a dangerous product.

This is what has upset me the most. Not the £1500... I was on the motorway, in the car with my two children - driving a car that has two rotten subframes, amongst other things.

 

[Transform_IT]

I am still wondering what my Credit Card company and PayPal would say about it? I appreciate it was done via friends and family, which in hindsight is a ball ache.

 

[Transform_IT]

Honestly how safe is a £1500 car in reality?

In reality, they can be very safe. The second-hand market is flooded - I have many old Volvos that are the safest, comfiest and most reliable cars I have owned. It is about supply and demand when it comes to vehicles and the second-hand market. But that's beside the point. Ultimately, he has sold the vehicle knowing it was structurally unsafe but now denies all knowledge. I wouldn't be fussed if he had owned the vehicle for 5 years and just didn't want it, but he purchased it 9 days previous to me from Gumtree, asked the seller to remove it because he didn't want his friends to see what he paid... and then re-listed it on Autotrader stating it was a straight vehicle, for £750 more.

 

[Transform_IT]

Why don't you spend 40 quid on a bat and go visit him?

Assuming you are tasty enough? Which I suspect you are not and you will let this all slide and have a good cry about it.

Lol - If I was 10 years younger, maybe. But I have a young family and a good job. Threatening him with violence won't change anything.

 

[Transform_IT]

How do you know they are safe if you couldn't tell this was a lemon?

You say you have many old volvos. So what was the point in buying this car? To sell on for a profit?

I own a Volvo estate and just fancied this car as something extra and fun - sadly it was 4-5 hours away and I believed what I read on the Autotrader advert. Also, the seller seemed genuine, but it now turns out that was all an act.

 

[Transform_IT]

op sorry to hear this but let me be blunt:

You're quibbling over a few hundred £. You're in the bangernomic end of car buying, it's always going to be a minefield. I'd just cut your losses and gamble on another cheap banger. That or be prepared to spend the money for a car that gives you peace of mind.... Mind you, even new cars don't offer that now do they?

I understand you're probably annoyed by the fact you bought a lemon but look at the bigger picture. Just move on, I assure you it won't be worth the stress and effort it will require.

I totally agree and appreciate your post mate, thanks. I think what I will do is phone my credit card company and ask them before I write it off. I don't want or need the stress and hassle from the seller. I have read this: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/D...ffairs/c-private-sales-and-car-boot-sales.pdf

And the part:

Private sales and car boot sales What the law says When you buy goods from a private individual, for example, by answering an advert in the local paper or at a car boot sale, the law says the goods must:-  match their description. This means they must be as described by the seller. This includes any description on the label. For example, if a seller says a car has a 1800cc engine, it must not have an 1100cc engine. It is important to check goods before you buy, because generally goods brought from a private seller do not have to be free from faults. However, if the seller tells you the goods are in good working order, and they turn out to be faulty, then you may be able to take action on the grounds that the goods did not match their description (see below). People who sell goods as part of their business sometimes pose as private sellers, because then the customer has fewer rights. This is a criminal offence, so if you suspect that a private seller is actually in business you should inform the Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 0845 404 0506. If you buy goods from someone posing a private seller, you can insist on the same rights as if you had brought the goods in a shop. For example, if the goods are faulty, you may be able to get your money back. It is a criminal offence for someone to sell an unroadworthy car.

The credit card company may be equally liable for any breach of contract if the seller is a trader and:
 they arranged finance for you to pay for the goods; or
 you used your credit card to pay for the goods; and
 the goods cost more than £100 and not more than £30,000 for a single item, although you don’t need to have put the full purchase price on your card.

 

[Transform_IT]

You did right by paying with cc, at least you have more cover. You're absolutely right though, it's not worth your stress. You won't gain anything by pursuing the guy and if he's that low he'll do it again regardless. Best of luck!

Thanks for the advice, bud. I have never had to do a chargeback or attempt to do one on a credit card. Am I best phoning them and asking for advice or what? Wouldn't know the first place to start.

 

[Transform_IT]

Would I be best doing a letter with a template similar to this - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...m-for-equal-liability-from-a-credit-provider/

Or just phoning.

 

[Transform_IT]

Looks like the law does cover you if a private seller sells an unroadworthy car.

Unroadworthy cars

The Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to sell an unroadworthy car. The Act does not distinguish between private sellers and motor traders.

<read more>

interesting.

 

[Transform_IT]

He didn’t use his credit card to buy a car, he used it to fund his PayPal account.

This needs to be disputed with PayPal or a court. It won’t go anywhere with pp, so it’s small claims or persuasive messages.

True, but I sent the payment direct using the card and Paypal was the platform. I didn't add funds to my account and then use the paypal funds to pay. So surely, the transaction is still via the CC?

 

[Transform_IT]

I suppose the best thing I can do now is phone my CC company, tell them the details and see what they say. As many of you have said, it may not be worth the hassle, especially if PayPal is in the middle. I wouldn't like to get on the wrong side of them.

Edit:

It would seem I'm not covered -
What doesn’t Section 75 cover?

• Items you buy with a debit card, charge card or prepaid card
• Purchases made through third parties – Paypal and Amazon Marketplace, for example – might not be covered, however these third parties may have their own refund schemes
• Delivery charges aren’t included when assessing the value of your item, but you may be able to claim them along with the cost of the item
• Purchases made by additional cardholders, however purchases made on behalf of the main cardholder may be covered
• If you choose not to use a service when it’s available – for example, not taking a flight you’ve paid for
• Loans
• Balance transfers
• Cash withdrawals

Ahh well, lesson learnt. Thanks for the support and help guys. It is much appreciated. I will still phone them and ask, it can't hurt. I have just read some interesting posts online from individuals who have a similar issue. Paid for an item via PayPal friends and family using their bank or credit card and have successfully had the chargeback done and had no comeback from PayPal. Apparently, if you try and dispute it directly with PayPal the chargeback will be unsuccessful, but if done through your CC company it will work. This issue I have though, is the car is still on my driveway?

 

[Transform_IT]

In fact PayPal may take you to court for the money as you used friend's and family to pay then did a charge back to them

Apparently, the chargeback process works - and the only person liable would be the seller as they are in breach of the rules of their account for selling items and accepting payment via friends and family (as there is no fee).

 

[Transform_IT]

Not only that but apparently there is an abundance of amazingly safe £1500 vehicles on the market.

Instead of picking one locally which would be easier to inspect, pick up and resolve any issues. He decided to pick one 5 hours away.

I'm sure something isn't adding up.

I once sold a fully working electrical item when there was knee deep snow outside, the deepest snow I've ever seen in my life, even aldi was shut and I had to walk to asda and back as no car could get through. I told the guy that it wasn't a good idea to pick up and wait for it to clear some more as the roads had only just been gritted but my driveway was still knee deep.. I wouldn't be able to help him carry it until the snow cleared. I didn’t want me to fall or drop it and then be left with a damaged item. He wanted it straight away and brought a friend. They proceeded to drag it through the snow to the car. I showed him that all the electrics were now covered in snow and it wasn't just a little bit they had literally scooped up a pile of it inside whilst dragging through the snow. Like a shovel.

He text me 2 hours later to say he wanted his money back. I explained that wasn't my fault his negligence broke it and he said he dried it before turning it on.

I explained that kind of thing would take several days in a high temperature environment to be completely dry. Not a simple wipe with a cloth.

Again his fault for not knowing how water and electrical components work.

Some people will always learn the hard way.

OP is angry at the seller but in reality he is the one to blame for this whole mess. He put his own kids at risk.

I once had a cheap Chinese power adapter blow up on me. Luckily no fire. But I swore to never buy anything like that again. Could have wiped out everyone in the house.

Buy cheap buy twice.

I fail to understand your logic!? First off, the story regarding you selling an electrical item has no relevance to my current situation. Secondly, I fail to see how I am solely to blame for purchasing an item, whether it be a car or an electrical product, that was described as excellent condition, yet is far from it. It isn't uncommon for people to buy vehicles from a popular auction site, solely based on the description and photographs. In this instance, I purchased a vehicle, based on the in-depth description of the AutoTrader advert. Nowhere did it mention the car was structurally unsound or it was rotten underneath. Based on this and the conversation I had with the seller (who told me they were emigrating, which turned out to be a lie and they changed their story to, it was because they couldn't afford the insurance), there was no reason to suspect the vehicle was a 'lemon'. Now, on delivery of the item, the condition seemed to match the advert, however after receiving some information from a third party, it appears I have been scammed by someone who purchased the car for a low price, fully aware of its issues and sold it on to me. You could argue it's wildly different to buying a second-hand TV from eBay or a £1200 graphics card from Amazon, only to find, once it been delivered it's not as described... but in reality, it's not, it's very much the same. I purchased an item based on its description and it doesn't match this. Regardless of whether I purchased it face to face or from the other side of the world. I have sold several cars to individuals in other countries. Based on my description and photos, they have sent me the money via BT and arranged for transportation of the vehicle.

Anyway, I've had a think and decided to cut my losses and move on.

• Could I pursue this and get my money back? Yes...
• Am I going to? Probably not...
• Why? because of the hassle, stress and time and effort, it will take. Also, if the guy is happy to sell a car to someone knowing it is unroadworthy, I can only imagine what else he is capable of, considering he knows my home address. I don't need that sort of aggro, and I believe I can put some of the issues right myself and keep the vehicle or sell it on and get my money back.

 

[Transform_IT]

We need pictures to be honest. Some people can't tell bad rot from normal rust.

I see you have a V70R - very nice. I've got a p2 V70R. Recently sold my 850 T5 and P1 V70 T5. Love my Volvos.

 

[Transform_IT]

Thanks. Mine has a few issues which I'm working through... Let's say it was an ill thought out purchase. (like many of mine)

Used to have a P2 S60 T5 manual as well. That one worked better...

Is it the AWD version? Auto or Manual? Are you on the Facebook groups?

 

[Transform_IT]

I'm taking the car to a local professional tomorrow to get his opinion on the status of the vehicle (roadworthy/un-roadworthy. Depending on what comes back will determine what course of action I take.

For everybody asking, the car is an MY00 62,000 Subaru Impreza Wagon UK2000 (no modifications) with MOT until May 2020. The previous MOT's don't raise any alarms and the description on AutoTrader was bob on.

 

[Transform_IT]

That's all well and good, but £1499 sounds too cheap for it...?

You're not wrong. £1499 or £1500 is extremely cheap. This is the reason I phoned and asked a lot of questions surrounding rust and corrosion. You can pick these cars up now for sub £900 with corrosion and rust on the arches. The WRX STI's are silly money, so don't get confused with them. However, the owner (accused scammer) told me the car was perfect and just had a minor scratch on the rear bumper which the advert showed a specific photo of. I had no reason to disbelieve the guy who told me he was selling quickly due to moving to Spain. As said previously, when confronting him about the car's corrosion and being structurally unsound he lied and said he sold the car because he couldn't afford to insure it. I questioned this and mentioned the emigrating to Spain story, to which he replied: "You must be getting me confused with somebody else".