Best External DAC For Me

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2019 at 19:50

So,

I've currently got a Xonar Essence STX, I've got this combined with a Corsair SP2500 and some Sennheiser PC360's.

All in all, I'd say it's a "good" set up for what it currently is.

Alas, with me rocking an AM4 set up with PCI-E 4.0 I've encountered some issues with the sound card, and indeed the latest BIOS has completely and utterly broken compatibility with my Xonar Sound Card.

I kind of expected it given all the issues I'm reading surrounding X570 and internal Xonar sound cards, so I'm going to move the sound card on to my girlfriend so it'll power her headphones better than the her on board sound.

That's left me currently with needing to buy an external DAC as I'm trying to get away from having an internal sound card.

I was looking at the Creative Sound Blaster X7, that looks like I can just plug in optical to it and then plug in my speakers and headphones to the DAC while also being future proof for when I eventually upgrade the sound on my PC as I've had my set up for the longest of any component.

Is there anything else anyone can suggest?

Thank you.

b00merang69 · 10 Nov 2019 at 19:53

The X7 is kinda pricey for it being old, I would look at the new SoundBlaster X3 as it is both a fully fledged 7.1 soundboard and DAC..

https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-x3

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/creative-x3-and-theater-headphones-with-x-fi.18865799/

Martini1991 · 10 Nov 2019 at 20:36

b00merang69 said:
The X7 is kinda pricey for it being old, I would look at the new SoundBlaster X3 as it is both a fully fledged 7.1 soundboard and DAC..

https://uk.creative.com/p/sound-cards/sound-blaster-x3

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/creative-x3-and-theater-headphones-with-x-fi.18865799/

I just want something quality.

Something modern that could be bought for £300 for example I'd probably jump at, but I don't know what to buy.
I'm not too positive on that X3. It'd do the job, but I want something a bit more I think.

b00merang69 · 10 Nov 2019 at 20:40

I meant "soundcard" above BTW , it seems quality going by reviewer who preferred it over the high end Flagship AE9 and some members in that thread seem happy so far and its early days yet.

The specs on it are much higher than the Z series or AE5

I am tempted as I hate the sound from my ZxR.

What more do you want from the X3?, ie does the DAC side of it not meet your spec or the rest of it as its highly spec'd on the analogue outputs and even upgraded optical outputs.

Headphone Amp
Supported Headphone Impedance: 32Ω - 600Ω, Low Gain: 32 - 149Ω (1.2V RMS @ 32Ω, 1.5V RMS @ 150Ω), High Gain: 150 - 600Ω (2.3V RMS @ 150Ω, 2.9V RMS @ 600Ω)

Direct Mode
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 32-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Optical Out): PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Optical Out): PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 32-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz

Recording Resolution
Mic-in: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Mic-in: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
What-U-Hear: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
What-U-Hear: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Line-in: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Line-in: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz

Martini1991 · 11 Nov 2019 at 08:24

b00merang69 said:
I meant "soundcard" above BTW , it seems quality going by reviewer who preferred it over the high end Flagship AE9 and some members in that thread seem happy so far and its early days yet.

The specs on it are much higher than the Z series or AE5

I am tempted as I hate the sound from my ZxR.

What more do you want from the X3?, ie does the DAC side of it not meet your spec or the rest of it as its highly spec'd on the analogue outputs and even upgraded optical outputs.

Headphone Amp
Supported Headphone Impedance: 32Ω - 600Ω, Low Gain: 32 - 149Ω (1.2V RMS @ 32Ω, 1.5V RMS @ 150Ω), High Gain: 150 - 600Ω (2.3V RMS @ 150Ω, 2.9V RMS @ 600Ω)

Direct Mode
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Stereo): PCM 32-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Optical Out): PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Playback Resolution (Optical Out): PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Surround 7.1: PCM 32-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz

Recording Resolution
Mic-in: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Mic-in: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
What-U-Hear: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
What-U-Hear: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Line-in: 16-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz
Line-in: 24-bit, 48.0, 96.0, 192.0 kHz

The X3 looks good.
However the reason why I'm looking at the X7 is due to ;

Bluetooth adds a level of flexibility.

The optical input adds another layer of flexibility as I'm able to move it freely to consoles etc as I swap and change set ups.

The ability to add proper speakers in the form of some monitor audio bronze etc.

I won't be on the 2500s forever and I'm only back on them for space concerns that won't exist in my next house.

I used to have a marantz pm6005 with some monitor audio b2xs connected to my xonar with line in. But when we bought this house I changed back to my 2500s, this was only a temporary thing and when we buy our next house I'll want to go back to a proper set up.

My marantz and speakers are currently on the console set up with my OLED and that will likely remain when we move, although I may change the speakers in which case they'll either go elsewhere or go back to my PC.

But that's why I kind of trying to think future proof with this purchase which will both allow me to continue as normal now and also be able to be used in my next set up.

So spending say 300 on the X7 doesn't bother me, but if there's a better options at same price that offers me same as X7 I'm all ears.

Martini1991 · 11 Nov 2019 at 21:25

It looks like it's possible to get a Sound Blaster X7 from Ebay fairly "cheap", I just missed out on one at £106.00 because I wasn't 100% sure if I wanted it.

There's two more going, one being the limited edition ones with the heftier power supply. I'm very tempted by that if I can get it for £200.

Unless there's anything else with nigh on the same functionality and features at a similar price point or up to £300?

b00merang69 · 11 Nov 2019 at 21:55

Not sure I thought the limited one was simply white/gold or such.

FYI the X3 AFAIK has Bluetooth but its primarily for you to send profiles from your phone to the control module so unsure if you can pair headphones with it etc.

At the end of the day for me it would be about sound quality be it pure or shaped because it does not matter as it is what it sounds like to my ears and this ZxR in Stereo Direct (trying it for a few weeks to let ears and brain adjust) sounds flat.

Timber · 12 Nov 2019 at 12:27

I'm sure that people are aware of this, but as a X7 owner I didn't realise this until recently. The bluetooth on the X7 is only for receiving audio and not transmitting, although I believe it allows more than one device to be connected at one time. Still useful for say playing on a console whilst listening to a Podcast from a phone. But unfortunately means you can't pair Bluetooth headphones with the X7.

Martini1991 · 12 Nov 2019 at 13:46

Timber said:
I'm sure that people are aware of this, but as a X7 owner I didn't realise this until recently. The bluetooth on the X7 is only for receiving audio and not transmitting, although I believe it allows more than one device to be connected at one time. Still useful for say playing on a console whilst listening to a Podcast from a phone. But unfortunately means you can't pair Bluetooth headphones with the X7.

When I saw the Bluetooth functionality I took it to mean sending audio from my phone for example to the X7 to play on the speakers
I'm assuming that's correct?

How do you find the X7?

I'm gutted I missed out on it at 106 as I was double guessing myself constantly.

I feel like for me they'd be really good , I could even see me getting more than one .

Timber · 12 Nov 2019 at 19:00

Martini1991 said:
When I saw the Bluetooth functionality I took it to mean sending audio from my phone for example to the X7 to play on the speakers
I'm assuming that's correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Martini1991 said:
How do you find the X7?

In short I think it is a very good product, and has done what I wanted it to. I have the normal 'black' version and not the special edition.

I previously had a mixture of ZxR, Fiio E7/E9 and Astro Mixamp (asked 18-months ago and got some valuable input here). I wanted to try and consolidate my audio into one solution for PC, Xbox and PS4. And the X7 does that brilliantly. One of its strength is being able to play from multiple inputs at the same time and not having to switch headphones or speakers to another audio solution.

As gaming is my main use the X7 has been a big step up in sound quality for the consoles. I've seen reviews from the likes of ZEOS on YouTube about the X7 where it's clear the reviewer hasn't really appreciated how good the X7 is for gaming. Creative's virtual surround is still far better than anything else I've heard. I'm currently using with my AKG K702, Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro and Coolmaster MH751 (for the few times I need closed or voice). The X7 and K702 for gaming is astounding and I adore that combination. The software and app is useful and I've never had any issues with these.

It's not perfect and I definitely have a few niggles with the X7 although minor. When I was looking the SoundBlaster X G6 wasn't out so I may have considered that too. Indeed I'd be tempted if buying now to look at a G6 and Fiio K5 Pro combination. But as mentioned that does away with the biggest strength of the X7 and having everything connected to one device. It's great being able to switch seamlessly between streaming something to playing on console or doing everything all at once.

Hope that helps.

EsaT · 12 Nov 2019 at 19:06

Martini1991 said:
I was looking at the Creative Sound Blaster X7, that looks like I can just plug in optical to it and then plug in my speakers and headphones to the DAC while also being future proof for when I eventually upgrade the sound on my PC as I've had my set up for the longest of any component.

Unless having Dolby Digital or DTS encoder (like from sound card) use of optical means being stuck to stereo signal.
While that would be enough for those speakers, headphones can do lot better when combined with HRTF and that needs surround sound as source data.
(PC360 should be very capable for binaural sound)
Guess you could use software as "virtual sound card" to do HRTF and have it output two channel PCM through optical and have all processing disabled in X7.
But that's somewhat clumsy approach.
And you would need to access that software every time you wanted to enable HRTF for games/movies and disable it for use of speakers. (+possibly listening music on headphones)

Would be better to use USB with PC and have it work as 5.1 device allowing enabling/disabling HRTF from physical button.

Though as far as HRTF is concerned, algorithm of X7 (like most others) is kinda "old tech" being based on some fixed average head shape.
People having different head (+pinnae) shape means personal binaural cues used by brain to process sound source positions differ from person to another.
So for more consistent accuracy HRTF needs to be personalized.
Creative has Super X-fi named tech for that, which analyzes photos of face and ears to customize HRTF.
But they've been slow in bringing it into sound cards and Sound Blaster X3 is so far only sound card with it.

Fro testing Creative's fixed HRTF here's some gameplay recordings.
Remember to play without any processing or effects.
https://youtu.be/UE-NorSeH68?t=3m20s
https://youtu.be/B8xZp0WPwxs?t=19m50s

Martini1991 · 12 Nov 2019 at 19:31

EsaT said:
Unless having Dolby Digital or DTS encoder (like from sound card) use of optical means being stuck to stereo signal.
While that would be enough for those speakers, headphones can do lot better when combined with HRTF and that needs surround sound as source data.
(PC360 should be very capable for binaural sound)
Guess you could use software as "virtual sound card" to do HRTF and have it output two channel PCM through optical and have all processing disabled in X7.
But that's somewhat clumsy approach.
And you would need to access that software every time you wanted to enable HRTF for games/movies and disable it for use of speakers. (+possibly listening music on headphones)

Would be better to use USB with PC and have it work as 5.1 device allowing enabling/disabling HRTF from physical button.

Though as far as HRTF is concerned, algorithm of X7 (like most others) is kinda "old tech" being based on some fixed average head shape.
People having different head (+pinnae) shape means personal binaural cues used by brain to process sound source positions differ from person to another.
So for more consistent accuracy HRTF needs to be personalized.
Creative has Super X-fi named tech for that, which analyzes photos of face and ears to customize HRTF.
But they've been slow in bringing it into sound cards and Sound Blaster X3 is so far only sound card with it.

Fro testing Creative's fixed HRTF here's some gameplay recordings.
Remember to play without any processing or effects.
https://youtu.be/UE-NorSeH68?t=3m20s
https://youtu.be/B8xZp0WPwxs?t=19m50s

For the most part I'm more than happy stuck to stereo sound.
But I take your point into consideration, I'd certainly use USB.

I could however use the USB into my Mac which would allow me the ability to change between my separate speakers/headphones I use for that too, as it's impossible to plug in headphones and use the inbuilt speakers etc on a 27" 2013 iMac.

It's just got a load of flexibility to it.

I could do with trying out a bit of kit to be honest and seeing what suits me best.

Timber · 12 Nov 2019 at 20:08

EsaT said:
Creative has Super X-fi named tech for that, which analyzes photos of face and ears to customize HRTF. But they've been slow in bringing it into sound cards and Sound Blaster X3 is so far only sound card with it.

Although the Super X-fi sounds like an upgrade worth investigating I can't help but feel personally it's better to wait until the next-gen consoles arrive as a time to upgrade. Although this is coming from someone who is a multiplatform gamer and generally moving away from PCs for gaming. I imagine Creative will have a newer/replacement X7 at some point built on this new tech.

EsaT · 12 Nov 2019 at 20:21

Timber said:
Although the Super X-fi sounds like an upgrade worth investigating I can't help but feel personally it's better to wait until the next-gen consoles arrive as a time to upgrade. Although this is coming from someone who is a multiplatform gamer and generally moving away from PCs for gaming. I imagine Creative will have a newer/replacement X7 at some point built on this new tech.

With big gap between X3 and X7 there would be space for some X5 model first.

Just can't understand why Creative released those very expensive AE-7 and AE-9 without Super X-Fi.
I mean Creative announced Super X-Fi year earlier to release of those.
At least Sound BlasterX G6 was announced only half year later.
(and now SB X3 lacks that console compatibility of SBX G6 by not having DD decoding...)

Timber · 13 Nov 2019 at 13:32

EsaT said:
With big gap between X3 and X7 there would be space for some X5 model first...

I've always felt the Creative product line-up was bit of a mess. A mash-up of older and current products often with overlap of two or more items that all do the same thing. It's certainly much easier if you're just looking for PC audio or only want an AMP/DAC for headphone usage. And in this sense I think Creative nailed it with the SBX G6. Although if you have more than one format or speakers it becomes bit of quardry to how you connect everything. And that's where the X7 is great; own power supply, separate connections for speakers, optical, USB and BT input.

It will be interesting to see if audio changes dramatically with the new consoles next year (i.e. will Xbox finally allow USB audio devices etc.). That's where it'd be nice for a newer X7-type product, personally speaking.

R3X · 13 Nov 2019 at 15:25

Creative did hint a while ago there would be soundcards with the superfi tech, am guessing summer/fall 2020 though but its a guesstimate.

What a right mess releasing £180-300 sound cards without their own hyped flag ship tech on it, looks like it maybe some time before all those new AMD Ryzen owners with the newer X570 boards get stable bioses for pci-express 4.0 issues sorted.

Definitely keeping hold of my soundblaster X3, its tiny and packs a punch.