best network backup & disaster recover method?

[Lex]

Okay so we have about 4 servers in the office

fileserver
fax & printer server
stream server
other server

we have lots of information stored on these servers that are highly important.
Our network is 8mbps adsl line.

it's come to that time to come up with a method of backup and disaster recovery. Now what options are there is my question? I've come up with:

* Using SAN device
* USing NAS device

Either one to be RAIDED and allow up to a 2 terabytes of data storage which is more than enough.

now the company is small-medium sized in terms of data. but we are growing in data everyday! What would you all suggest would be the best way to backup and ensure maximum up time in terms of our business critical data?

the network admin said NO to NAS because it transferred data across the network and would cause traffic. Is he correct to right this off?

Let me know please

 

[bitslice]

the network admin said NO to NAS because it transferred data across the network and would cause traffic. Is he correct to right this off?

why is your company full of noobs ?

btw. You do have a tape backup thing (eg Backup Exec) running yes ?
Please say yes Lex, or I'll start worrying....

--------
you could create a separate backup network by adding a 2nd NIC to each server, then the backup traffic is isolated from the production traffic.
So he's being a bit.....cautious.

Dependant on network usage, a gigabit network won't see much slowdown anyway. (or are you using 10/100...)
With incremental backups, even less.



...hopefully someone else will now suggest lots of nice server imaging software because I can't be bothered to go look.


Q1. what do you use a "stream server" for.... video ?
Q2. how fast is your storage increasing

(no, this isn't me again, it's someone else)

 

[Uhtred]

i'd go with a tape backup method. Monthly full backup kept offsite and stored for indefinitely. A weekly (full), 4 tape rotation kept off site and a daily 4 tape incremental also stored off site.

so monday to thursday is a daily and friday is your weekly. On the last day of the month you'd run the montly job

 

[bitslice]

I'm "assuming" he's using Tape already,
and just wanting NAS as a fast secondary backup....

I won't be suprised if they are using floppies though

 

[Lex]

I'm "assuming" he's using Tape already,
and just wanting NAS as a fast secondary backup....

I won't be suprised if they are using floppies though

shurrup! u doughnut! lol we are using tape backups at the moment. but as a secondary backup! jeees. why is my comopany full of noobies!! you're so rude! can i not post a message on here without you trying to gun me down??!!

lol you're lucky its the end of the day sir! Anyway i have a lame i.t solutions company and i dont believe the way how they operate is very good for business lets say. I query their steps and more so i'm right!

thanks for your input anyway. The data streaming is in the evening times and its images and data that gets streamed and processed through the servers.

going home now speak maybe later.

 

[bitslice]

...you don't want to run all this over a 3G wireless link do you...
(just checking)

2Tb data ?
double it for a laugh to 4Tb and this is still really just NAS territory.

If you want to limit the time taken, then backup to NAS and then backup from the NAS to tape.


I'd guess if you have streaming data then you have a reasonable network load going on at the same time the backup is taking place ?

I'm "assuming" you have a gigabit switch.
Do a quick test - while the stream server is being fed with data, FTP a 1Gb file across the network. Do the same when the stream server is inactive.
Then you have an idea of the network loading.

Compare this against your allowed backup window and you can work out how many Gb you can transfer overnight.

If that is still too slow look at :-
- switch topology
- faster disks/CPU
- adding a 2nd NIC / isolated backup network
- multiple NAS boxes
- NIC teaming

the servers/tapes throughput tends to limit data backup speed more than network loading


There is a lot of stuff to try before looking at £££ SAN
(unless your IT chap just wants an expensive new toy)


-----
I rigged up two old boxes with 1.2Tb of cheap SATA drives, I backup multiple servers to disk as well as to several LTO tapes. Network load is minimal on an old 100Mbs switch.

hey, I wasn't getting at you it's still your IT guys job to deploy new kit.

----
for server imaging, check out :
http://eu.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/
.

 

[allllec]

Secondary NICs in all the servers - create an offline secondary 100mbps (of gigabit if you got the kit) network - just incrementally back everything up to a NAS device (personally i would say its nicest to build a small lil, low powered rig running a Linux NAS distro) that way as needs grow you can throw more storage into that little server.

advantages:
- no affect on rest of network
- data is kept safe (offline) when being backed up / on server
- scalability
- cheap
- *easy* management (very subjective lol)

disadvantages:
- not so easy to take the backups off site
- doubtful if your sensible but always the risk of the Linux box popping, or hard drive failed - RAID5 anyone?

 

[Lex]

Secondary NICs in all the servers - create an offline secondary 100mbps (of gigabit if you got the kit) network - just incrementally back everything up to a NAS device (personally i would say its nicest to build a small lil, low powered rig running a Linux NAS distro) that way as needs grow you can throw more storage into that little server.

advantages:
- no affect on rest of network
- data is kept safe (offline) when being backed up / on server
- scalability
- cheap
- *easy* management (very subjective lol)

disadvantages:
- not so easy to take the backups off site
- doubtful if your sensible but always the risk of the Linux box popping, or hard drive failed - RAID5 anyone?

your advice is appreciated but definetly not in your last comment! No need is there? There's a risk at a lot of things 'popping' which is why i have to look at disaster recovery plans or contingencies. yes, RAID is in use at the moment anyway.

can you expand on "Secondary NICs in all the servers - create an offline secondary 100mbps (of gigabit if you got the kit) network "

 

[Lex]

...you don't want to run all this over a 3G wireless link do you...
(just checking)

2Tb data ?
double it for a laugh to 4Tb and this is still really just NAS territory.

If you want to limit the time taken, then backup to NAS and then backup from the NAS to tape.


I'd guess if you have streaming data then you have a reasonable network load going on at the same time the backup is taking place ?

I'm "assuming" you have a gigabit switch.
Do a quick test - while the stream server is being fed with data, FTP a 1Gb file across the network. Do the same when the stream server is inactive.
Then you have an idea of the network loading.

Compare this against your allowed backup window and you can work out how many Gb you can transfer overnight.

If that is still too slow look at :-
- switch topology
- faster disks/CPU
- adding a 2nd NIC / isolated backup network
- multiple NAS boxes
- NIC teaming

the servers/tapes throughput tends to limit data backup speed more than network loading


There is a lot of stuff to try before looking at £££ SAN
(unless your IT chap just wants an expensive new toy)


-----
I rigged up two old boxes with 1.2Tb of cheap SATA drives, I backup multiple servers to disk as well as to several LTO tapes. Network load is minimal on an old 100Mbs switch.

hey, I wasn't getting at you it's still your IT guys job to deploy new kit.

----
for server imaging, check out :
http://eu.acronis.com/enterprise/products/ATISWin/
.

Our streaming of data takes place at 3am. No one using our network at this point. NAS 2tb is minimal for NAS? That's more than enough. i'm thinking NAS and SAN is not the way to go and more so for large enterprise companies.

Yes we have a gigabyte switch and gigabyte NIC. Where would you use SAN then? for a large enterprise or something?

 

[bitslice]

your advice is appreciated but definetly not in your last comment! No need is there?

allllec didn't mean it in the way you're thinking....
he meant "sensible" in terms of getting a reliable PSU and configuring your hard drives in RAID 5.

A Linux NAS is what you'd get if you bought a rackmount NAS box from a vendor, so rolling your own is a good option.

.

 

[bitslice]

Our streaming of data takes place at 3am. No one using our network at this point. NAS 2tb is minimal for NAS? That's more than enough.

I'm a bit unclear about which servers you are backing up, but you have a fairly big backup window to play with, so all good.

If you think 2Tb is enough, then double it anyway.
Having the ability to store a few weeks worth of data is very handy, when compared against having to retrieve a file from slow tape.
Plus a disk copy saves your ass when you find out the tape copy is bad.

Then there is archiving of old server data, emails, network logs.
There is loads of stuff that is better kept online and searchable, rather than on tape (and useless).

and 2Tb is just £350 worth of hard drives...


I can't honestly comment on SAN, it does have it's place, but I know it costs more than £350

.

 

[allllec]

well yes, sorry my last comment is crude but its true - anyway

what i mean about "secondry nic, offline network blah" is

in the servers that are backing up and the server you are backing up to, install another network card, but do not add them to the current network, set there subnets, ips and what not off the range of your current internal network so they are detached. this way it makes it a lot more difficult for virii and hackers to enter the backup server as its not directly connected to the wide area network.

afraid im at collage at the moment else i would do a viso drawing but something like...


LAN Primary - your current network

subnet: whatever currently
ip's: whatever you use currently

Lan Secondry - your "backup, offline" network
subnet: something difirent to your primary lan
ip's: something different again
becuase this LAN is internal - has no access to DNS, or any sort of WAN it makes it VERY difficult to access remotly - becuase a hacker would have to enter your primary network, and then 'jump' onto the secondry LAN which i can tell you now is not an easy task through brute force...

excuase me making little sence (and bad grammer and spelling) very under the weather at the moment - im sure somone else will be able to explain a bit better

best of luck

alec

 

[bitslice]

^^ setup as above

As it really isn't that important to isolate the backup server, it might as well stay connected to the main LAN.
On your backup server, you can tell BackExec which network card to use to backup or restore. Just pick the one connected to the isolated network.



.[switch]---------------------.....10.0.0.0
..............|............|............|
..............|............|............|
...........Srv.A......Srv.B.......Srv.backup
..............|............|............|
..............|............|............|
.[switch]---------------------....172.16.0.0
...|
...|
.PC's



(now in glorious Super-Panoramic-ASCII-O-Vision)


.

 

[Lex]

i got it okay well i'll try making another backup sub network right now actually coz i have to backup pcs that come back from site and it's useful to just connect them straightup to the sub network and back that data up outside of the primary lan.

If i have the concept, then i will pretty much understand the big picture of backing up all our primary network data via a subnetwork. If that makes sense.

allllec dont mind me sometimes i'm a bit sensitive!