Best way into mountain biking questions

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rjk

rjk

rjk

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Hi

I got a specialised hybrid around a year ago via cycle to work and have used it a fair amount on mixed paths mainly mellow trails around my local country park, a lot of climbs etc. Recently I have found myself pushing the bike to the limits of my it's capabilities and perhaps my capabilities on a hybrid.

I want to look at selling it on (I know I will get nothing for it) and buying a MTB.

I have two friends who go regularly but they are far more advanced and have full suspension setups. I would like to get to a similar level as them and ride some more challenging terrain maybe with the odd jump in there.

I am looking at a Nukeproof Scout 275 Race as a potential puchase when they come out in a few months.

My questions

Is a low slung trail hardtail like this be a good choice for a beginner and someone looking to progress quickly?

Also, could I potentially replace the frame on this bike to a full suspension frame later down the line?

I have a Scott arx MTB helmet at the moment but not sure if there is a more protective option for the type of riding I'm aspiring to do as it doesn't feel confidence inspiring when I'm using it now.

Any advice on other equipment to consider too would be a great help.

Cheers.
 
Something like a Nukeproof scout will be perfect, also take a look at the vitus sentier VRS+, and if you're buying from chain reaction get a British cycling membership for £23 as it'll give you 10% off at CRC (and halfords).

Best thing to do is to ride lots, you'll progress quickly once you have the basics sorted (cornering, moving around on the bike etc).

That helmet looks fine for now, you might want to upgrade it at some point as current MTB helmets have moved on a lot in the last few years, with MIPS and much better coverage over the back of the head/temples.

If your friends are on FS bikes, and if you're 'older' (i.e. over 30) then you'll probably end up on a FS bike within a year or 2, £1800 gets you a very good FS bike that will be far more comfortable than a hardtail, if you're riding for over 2 hours and/or on tricky trails the extra comfort and suspension will come in handy. Nothing wrong with a hardtail to start out though.

As for other bits, just get a decent pair of (padded) shorts, and some cheap glasses to stop mud from going in your eyes. All the rest of the stuff (gloves, clipless shoes etc) can be bought later, all you really need is a bike, helmet, water bottle and some trails :D
 
Welcome Rich! :D

Sounds like Pauls got you pretty much sorted, I'm in a similar boat but coming from quite a bit of road riding and looking to ride with some friends on trails who are on FS. Have already pretty much ruled out hardtail medium-long term as nearing 40 and value my comfort/plums so much of my reluctance comes from sinking ~£2000 on a bike (more than my best road bike!) when I've yet to throw myself down a trail... :rolleyes::o:eek::D
 
Yeah I'm 37 in a few months and have decided it's FS for me, I used to ride lots - MTB about 15 years ago and road on a fixed gear 10 years ago but a combination of lack of fitness and age mean on a hardtail after and hour or so I'm really feeling the pain.

Get yourself on some demo days, they're just starting to happen again now, even if you don't ride the exact bike you're looking to buy you can ride and rule out different types of bike - 29er, hardtail, full suspension etc.

Also check if your local trail centre does bike hire, they may have hardtail or full suspension bikes.
 
TallPaul_S said:
£1800 gets you a very good FS bike that will be far more comfortable than a hardtai
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Roady said:
my reluctance comes from sinking ~£2000 on a bike
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you don't need to spend so much, especially if it's your first (full suss) mtb, or are new to it.

http://www.mbr.co.uk/buyers_guide/the-best-cheap-mountain-bikes-331305

A mate got a Calibre Beastnut last year and it's an amazing bargain of a bike - it was a limited edition version of the Calibre Bossnut from Go Outdoors - both are well worth a look for £1k bike and cross fingers they do a Beastnut again this year.

The Boardman Team FS is also £1k, I think. Also a good bike for the price - even better if you get a sale at Halfords, or use the British Cycling membership's 10% off.

Also, somewhere like Paul's Cycles do previous season bikes for decent discounts, like this Cannondale if you're a large size.

Personally (as I did) get a budget, but decent-ish, full suss for about a £1k - use it to learn how to ride and enjoy the sport. If you fall and it get's chipped or needs a new brake-lever, deraileur, etc. then it's not going to be too costly. Have fun without worrying too much about expensive components getting damaged and in a couple years, when you're less likely to cause damage to your bike (or yourself) then go wild on a fancy 2.5-3k bike ;)
 
True, but a few extra hundred at this end of the market goes a long way - for instance I said £1800 but with the BC discount it's actually £1665 for a Vitus Escarpe VR (27 or 29).

Revelation RC forks, RS deluxe RT shock, SLX groupset, decent Maxxis tyres, raceface AR27 rims, 780/800mm nukeproof bars, brand-x XL dropper (150mm) etc.

Not saying that the £1000 FS bikes are bad, far from it - but something has to give to get a FS bike for that price, it may be that some bits fail or need upgrading sooner than they would on a slightly more expensive bike, or you may find there are upgrades you want to do straight away (wider bar, decent tyres, dropper post) - all these little bits add up. It's something to take into consideration.

There's a new calibre BBB out soon (Beastnut's bigger brother - yes that's the name!) with an external dropper, rebas, bolt through rear end, 1x sram groupset and it'll be £1400.

I'm willing to spend a bit more on a 'first' bike as I know I enjoy MTB'ing having done it before, there would be things on the team fs/bossnut I'd want to upgrade/change straight away, like ditching the front mech and going to a 1x system, however both bikes only have 11-36t cassettes which having ridden a couple of bikes with eagle (10-50) and GX (11-42) I know straight away that an 11-36 range wouldn't be enough, that's a new cassette - then I'd need wider bars being a proper tall bloke at 6ft 3in, add a dropper post and you're looking at an extra £200 already. Chuck in a set of tyres and you're closer to £300...
 
I have been mountain biking since the early 1990’s on hardtails mainly The really early ones had no suspension and really poor brakes, once you started a steep Rocky downhill you either died on the way down or made it to the bottom. I still ride a mid 1990’s XC hardtail with vbrakes in the mountains abroad.

Modern hardtails are very different thankfully. For the bike the important thing is it fits you well, the spec is right especially the gearing and you like the look of the bike which makes you want to ride it. Check the current sales as you may find a good deal. Tall Paul gives very good advice about getting to test ride a variety of types of mountain bikes but at only 6ft3 compared to myself at 6ft7 he must have started shrinking early ;)
 
Paul - no denying that £1k to £1.5k and you're talking a lot better gear - I was just seeing the OP's comment about upgrading the frame down the line, just made me think he's already thinking this is a gateway bike, before bigger and better things ;) Thus something like the Boardman to start with and then go Canyon or YT for a full step up in components ;) Tbh, at just over a k, the aluminium Canyon Neurons (I think it's this year's Nerve) look pretty decent.
 
Yeah my thought process is that a hardtail with good geometry for trail riding would be a good start.

Perhaps am I being naive thinking that I could just upgrade the frame if I wanted to go FS?
 
rjk said:
Yeah my thought process is that a hardtail with good geometry for trail riding would be a good start.

Perhaps am I being naive thinking that I could just upgrade the frame if I wanted to go FS?
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You can and you can't.

Standards change often, so if you wan't a new bike then the standards could be different. You might find you want a stiffer fork, your wheels could be battered etc. Most of the time it is just cheaper to get a full new bike.

I done the same, and I should've just bought a new full sus. I got fed up of 140mm forks on the front and spent £600 on new forks for example. The wheels got battered pretty quickly, I wanted a new dropper and so on.

I'd suggest looking at a 2nd hand bike for your first mountain bike. So many bargains on Pinkbike sales.

The Nukeproof looks fine for a trail bike.

But I guarantee by the time you've decided you want a fullsus, you won't want those forks.
 
With the way components get offered to bike manufacturers at such discounted costs for their builds, it's generally cheaper to just buy a new bike from a direct seller - e.g. just look at the components/spec on the YT Yeffsy or Canyon Strive and try to build a bike yourself with the same components...

Tbh, if you get a decent hardtail then as long as it's stored dry and doesn't get wet, then it can just sit in your garage for days when either the full suss is out of action or you have a mate without access to a bike wants to come out on a ride (just check top up the tyres and fork pressure and you're pretty much good to go, depending on the wait). Basically, there's always an excuse to have a back up bike ;)

So, look at a middle of the road HT and when you want to progress to a FS then just get that, without confusing yourself with fork, hub-width, crank/bb, wheel dia, etc. standards all making it a pain to swap components from the HT to FS in a year or so.
 
rjk said:
Brilliant. So the key to mountain biking is to have loads of bikes. Ok. Got it
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Ha. No.

But financially it just sometimes it makes more sense to buy a new bike than try and make another. Unless your bargain hunting second hand, or want a specific build, or can only buy frame only.

I still think hardtail is the way forward for a first bike, no rear suspension to deal with is brilliant. No bearings, no setup, less issues. Just easier and simple. That Nukeproof is a bit of a bargain really too.
 
rjk said:
Brilliant. So the key to mountain biking is to have loads of bikes. Ok. Got it
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not at all, but when getting into a new hobby do you want to rush out and buy something expensive only to find out later that you really would have suited/preferred something else (or, possibly have damaged it, falling off as a beginner)? Would you like us to suggest a 3-5k carbon fibre bike instead, as that's what we're using?

Personally a cheap(ish) hardtail is great when the weather is bad and muddy as it's just far easier to clean and maintain. At the moment I only have 1 mountain bike, but that's because I started on a £400 HT and a year or so later stumbled upon an end of season FS at 1k, which both got stolen - the insurance company did a new for old scheme and couldn't source either, so gave me the cash price of equivalent bikes, which somehow worked out about 2.5k, so I got a decent aluminium FS (Whyte T130S) and after a couple years I've moved to a carbon YT Jeffsy and sold the Whyte to a mate after not touching it for 6 months. Personally I would still have a hardtail for muddy days, emergency backup, spare for when my brother visits or when I just want some variety (and in my mind a cross-country 29er or 650b plus HT would be a great bed-fellow to a 150mm travel full suss)

Don't think of them as 2 bikes doing the same job, they ride and work differently. Same as a road bike - you use that on a road and wouldn't go to an uplift day on it, that's for the FS... So, if you're just exploring canal paths and bridleways, with a bit of green lanes then a FS might be just too much of a bike and thus you're peddling unnecessary weight, so a HT is ideal.

It's not having loads of bikes, it's just having the most appropriate tool for the job in hand. (and it's almost convenient/coincidental that the way pricing works, it's usually far cheaper to just get a full new bike than upgrade a HT to a FS - providing you with the 2 bike options).
 
Think of it in terms of motorsports.

you have a S2000 (I'm assuming by the sig), so that's a nice road/track car, so like a road bike. You wouldn't take it green-laning...

You're now thinking about wanting a car for off road use, so should you get a rally car, rock-crawler, baja bug, dakar truck, etc. they're all "off road" but all serve a different purpose. A hardtale bike is possibly most equivalent to a rally car and good for rally-cross and hooning about in accessible off-road. Once you have skills, experience and some mates into the sport, then you realise you want something for more rocky off-road and have some mates with baja bugs, so join them. Would that mean you wouldn't still enjoy the rally car again? nope.

I hope they're not too bad analogies.
 
To echo what others have said. I'd not buy a lower priced hard tail with any intention to swap the frame to full suspension in the future - by the time you want to make that step chances are the other components will also be holding you back, so you'll be wanting a new bike on merit anyway, not to mention it's much cheaper to buy a whole bike than build it up individually.
Personally I started off mountain biking semi-seriously on a full suspension bike (2014 Boardman Pro-FS) and still ride it now. It's been a capable bike for the whole time and it's only really on fast aggressive trails that my fitter/better mates on bigger/better bikes really leave me for dead. The rest of the time I'm close enough for it to not make a difference, still have a tonne of fun.
There is definitely some merit on buying a hardtail to start with, the argument that it can help you to learn some good skills which you may develop slower on a full suspension bike definitely holds true. The old argument that you may have seen online that can't get a decent full suspension bike for £1k no longer really applies though - the price point where you should rule out full suspension is a lot lower these days. Just keep in "decent" is entirely subjective!

Personally I'd recomend making the hardtail vs full suspension bike decision based on what trials you are likely to ride. If you are riding with friends who are on full suspension bikes taking in big descents with jumps you probably want to follow suit, but if you live somewhere pretty flat I'd probably lean towards the hardtail. Definitely go try some bikes!

TallPaul_S said:
All the rest of the stuff (gloves, clipless shoes etc) can be bought later, all you really need is a bike, helmet, water bottle and some trails :D
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I'd disagree with one bit of this. Definitely, definitely buy some gloves! Losing all the skin on your hands when falling off your bike isn't something you want. Even a cheap pair will cover you initially, think I used some £10 ones from SportDirect for ages before buying some better padded gloves.

DereksDontRun said:
I hope they're not too bad analogies.
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Seems a solid analogy to me! :)
 
I took the plunge in December to see if i liked it or not. Rather than throw a load of cash at it I went for the C2W scheme and got a hardtail Boardman Pro 29’er from Halfords. It’s handled everything I’ve thrown at it thus far, Marin Trail, Penmachno, Llandegla and a few in Yorkshire, that’s with me being in mid 40’s and not riding a bike for 30yrs! I’m no way near as fast as the lads I go out with but it’s still fun! Get out most weeks and have got a lot fitter due to it!

I got lid, padded shorts, gloves, multi tool kit, spare inner tube, pump to start with. To that I’ve added hydration pack, glasses and have just gone clipless (which I’m still trying to get my head around how you can be using clipped shoes/pedals but refer to it as clipless.....).

:D
 
Nothing wrong with the Vitus nucleus, it's won hardtail of the year at least once, don't forget the British cycling 10% discount.

It's a decent hardtail which will handle most trail centre riding, have you looked into hiring a bike at a local trail centre?
 
Yeah I think I may go for that. See how I feel about it and it gives me an entry into the sport without much outlay.

Is there any major downsides for going for a cheapo bike like this? Will the parts on it need replacing frequently? Just worried I may as well spend more if that is the case?
 
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