Best way to work with servers?

[kt-own]

Alright! I've come to a decision about what sort of work I want to do day to day, I want to be involved in working with servers. I like installing and configuring various software, but don't want to limit myself to desktop support.

- What would be the best path to take if this is my end goal?

- How much do working with servers and working with network hardware/issues overlap?

- What is the title of someone who works with the servers in a company/business?

- Is there certain specialisation in server work, or is it a breadth of task that you do, and dabble in everything?

Sorry for so many questions, but as this is the enterprise bit this must be the best place for my list.

 

[theheyes]

Alright! I've come to a decision about what sort of work I want to do day to day, I want to be involved in working with servers. I like installing and configuring various software, but don't want to limit myself to desktop support.

- What would be the best path to take if this is my end goal?

Generally very very good IT skills. Both hardware and software troubleshooting. You may have to endure a few years of technical support if you have no experience.

- How much do working with servers and working with network hardware/issues overlap?

In my job the networking hardware routers/switches/cable installations are outsourced, but that's the exception rather than the rule as far as I know. I'm sure someone else who has worked in a few different places will be able to answer that question.

- What is the title of someone who works with the servers in a company/business?

A server can be anything from a PC stuck in a corner to a room full of very expensive, mission critical hardware. I'm guessing you want to work in the high end stuff, correct? I'm not sure if a mere "server guy" role exists, you'll much more likely be a broader technician or engineer. I'm sure there are people who have carved out server specialisation as their niche, but I would think they would work for a computer support company rather than hold that position in just a general IT department. I suspect it would have to be a large company to have a dedicated server position, but not unheard of I suppose.

- Is there certain specialisation in server work, or is it a breadth of task that you do, and dabble in everything?

Certainly for me, it's just one part of my job. The actual bread and butter of my job is looking after the client machines. That's where all the installs and configuration lies as once you have set up the server, if it's working you leave it alone!

Sorry for so many questions, but as this is the enterprise bit this must be the best place for my list.

Overall, I would probably say don't limit yourself to "working with servers" and get yourself some broad computing/IT qualifications. If you can find yourself some work experience in IT support you will probably get to dabble in lots of things which is the best way really. It proves your analytical and practical skills as well as your people skills which is always desirable, during which time you'll be making contacts in the industry and before you know it you may get the opportunity you want.

Good luck with it.

 

[oddjob62]

Having just got in from an emergency cluster fix (was just on my way to bed at 11:30 when I got the call), i'd say DON'T DO IT!!!

J/K but that's seriously what i'm thinking at the moment... i'll try answering again in the morning.

 

[bigredshark]

Well my answers included...

Alright! I've come to a decision about what sort of work I want to do day to day, I want to be involved in working with servers. I like installing and configuring various software, but don't want to limit myself to desktop support.

- What would be the best path to take if this is my end goal?

Depends where you are and what you're doing at the moment. A lot of backoffice guys I know moved from desktop support so it's not a bad way in. As mentioned, just generally high level skills are the starting point. Also depends if you're looking at Windows or Linux

- How much do working with servers and working with network hardware/issues overlap?

Depends on the company, in smaller companies a fair bit but thats because the networking isn't high level. At the higher end networking is usually it's own area as it's very specialised.

- What is the title of someone who works with the servers in a company/business?

Varies obviously, systems engineer is common, systems administrator also...

- Is there certain specialisation in server work, or is it a breadth of task that you do, and dabble in everything?

Plenty of specialisation available, generally in OS (Windows, Linux, Solaris etc...) and in application (Exchange, SQL, IIS). Most decent engineers know a little of everything but will have one specialist area.

Sorry for so many questions, but as this is the enterprise bit this must be the best place for my list.

Personally I got out of server work as it was a pain. Things break quite a lot, there's not too much variety once you know how everything works and you tend to end up doing the same day in day out.

 

[Bitpiece]

My guide.....

see below!!!

 

[Bitpiece]

My guide.....

It too came to the same decision as you about of couple of years back - that i wanted to move into the back-end where'd i'd have control and be able to do something interesting. I'm starting my first System Engineer role a week tommorrow and heres the rules i followed and how i did it:

1. Never let anything deviate you from your goal. Always have confidence in your ability as no-one else will otherwise. Don't take no for an answer - your going to achieve this no matter what.

2. You may find like i did that there are plenty of techies who want a similar role but aren't going to get one for various reasons (bad attitude, lack of drive, desire & motivation etc) they will be jealous of your aims and be negative about your chances - DO NOT listen to their pessimism. Reject their negativity for the malignant cancer that it is. Be positive!!! (cliched but it works).

3. Possibly the most important - be passionate about the technology! If you have 'the buzz' this will drive you. It will get you noticed and rub off on other people. If you want to know how something works and get excited about making things work then do it - don't just leave things to theory which leads onto.....

4. Get some hands-on experience. I know frustratingly that no enterprise is going to give someone that is unproven unfettered access to their pride and joy misson critical IBM datacenter and RAID-50 array's, but start small. Get a box like a cheap dual core and 2gb of ram and slap Windows Server 2003 on it (its available for evaluation download). If you can afford it, get a cheap server off ebay - an old dell will do as they have basic differences to normal hardware i.e. mainly redundancy like multiple psu's, hotswappable drive/nics, RAID array's etc. Also, get a cheap box to use as an end user client. You can also run Virtualisation on this box to simulate multiple end-client but essentially one will do. So when you have the server and the end client you can then look at the basic server software interfaces and consoles such as DHCP, DNS, Active Directory User's and Computers etc.

5. Do some courses: start with some nice intro's e.g. I did CompTIA A+, Network+ and Server+. These will get you thinking about the correct concepts and give you a degree of confidence. Then move on to the ubiquitous stuff. I did an MCP (microsoft certified professional) in Windows XP - nice and familiar but worthwhile. Then do your Systems Administrator (MCSA) to get a back-end server perspective. Then, if your still keen do your Systems Engineer (MCSE) like I did. This will get you respect as the majority of IT people I know don't have the determination to do it. After this I did some Cisco stuff (CCNA) to get used to the command line interface configuration of switches, routers, firewalls etc. The point i'm making here is do the common stuff first as your covering more bases and have a greater chance of getting into the industry. Linux and Juniper guys may not like it, but the fact is the Microsoft and Cisco have about 80-90% market share. Get that stuff under your belt and then do the linux and juniper. You can also branch out into Security and Project mangement later. The bottom line is that qualifications prove your eager, motivated and not just sitting around in a rut accepting £30,000 but really going nowhere because you don't have the single minded dogmatic drive to improve.

6. Get a job (or two jobs) that are relevant. First I started at Tech Guys on the phones. Then I got one part time job in front-end support doing customer facing desk-top/user support, and another part-time in job a primary school looking after their single server 100-node network. These job types aren't glamarous but you'll be surprised how they can develop your skills and they'll go on your cv. as bonafide experience in support. You'll learn people management skills too i.e liasing with external contractors and clients/staff.


I know i've ranted on, but I just wanted to take some time out of my day to help someone who is in the position I was in. Take from it whatever you want - a little or a lot. Also, you'll have to be prepared to have your setbacks i.e. bad interviews, failed exams etc, but if you keep trying and have belief and passion i'm telling you that you will succeed. Additionally the monetary costs may be high at first e.g. a lot of outlay for exams, course materials, equipment etc but this will be rewarded with a decent IT salary, with decent career prospects. Also, and trust me on this one - your going to be knackered from working and studying all the time. However, once you get your foot in the door and keep developing there's lots of opportunity to make big money and be involved in exciting projects.

If you ever find yourself questioning yourself or doubting your ability remember what Churchill said: "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts" and thats exactly right.

Lastly - good luck.

 

[bigredshark]

Linux and Juniper guys may not like it, but the fact is the Microsoft and Cisco have about 80-90% market share. Get that stuff under your belt and then do the linux and juniper.

Thats not always good advice, if I need a Cisco engineer I can find 10 good ones in a day. Decent juniper engineers are far thinner on the ground and command a lot more money. I have the top level qualifications from both vendors and I know which skills are in demand...

And as for linux, well it depends what you want to do. Windows might have 90% market share in small 100 user businesses but it's far less dominant in enterprise and SP environments, there are plenty things linux is a lot better at in those situations.

It depends who you want to work for and doing what.

I agree it's worth being passionate but don't get too passionate about technology for technologies sake, in the real world you're looking to deliver solutions as efficiently as possible, I've seen too many engineers obsessed with some cool technology they want to try out.

 

[Bitpiece]

Fair comments, i know where you're comming from - niche market specialization does have the ability to earn more, but crucially, for me, beginner isn't niche.

Also, I agree that you shouldn't be short-sighted enough to commit yourself to just one camp: microsoft, linux, juniper, cisco whatever, they're all good and all have their place. From a beginner's perspective though, I would cover as many bases as you can to get intial employment. After all we're not all going to just walk into the enterprises you refer to straightaway.

And, of course you can't just implement technology for the sake of it and the simplest solution is often the best indeed. Plus every piece of equipment bought has to be painstakingy justified to the powers that be and IT budgets are always under threat. But from my experience, I'd much rather work with, and feed off the passionate IT guy as opposed to the middle-aged balding, over-weight and slighty insecure about the young talent coming through type of guy (who unfortunately seem to exist in abundance in this industry).

Thats just my opinion.

 

[Bitpiece]

btw....CCIE & JNCIE?

I'll respect your authority!

 

[kt-own]

Wower, big post Bitpiece. It's nice that you would take that much time to help me out, and you have a big thank you from me. I was at a bookshop the other day, and saw a server+ book but some reviews for it say it's out of date for the exam reqs and is too old. Can you recommend a good book, or one that you used to pass? I think starting with the server+ is a good step, no?
bigredshark, would you say that an mcse is too common now in the workplace and I should take something like the linux+ and aim for redhat? As you say, a lot of servers are linux or unix and I may as well get some knowledge about them now. Or is that pigeonholing myself too early? I don't know a lot about how companies would hire or if they have lots of mcses and less say rhce's.

 

[oddjob62]

Wower, big post Bitpiece. It's nice that you would take that much time to help me out, and you have a big thank you from me. I was at a bookshop the other day, and saw a server+ book but some reviews for it say it's out of date for the exam reqs and is too old. Can you recommend a good book, or one that you used to pass? I think starting with the server+ is a good step, no?
bigredshark, would you say that an mcse is too common now in the workplace and I should take something like the linux+ and aim for redhat? As you say, a lot of servers are linux or unix and I may as well get some knowledge about them now. Or is that pigeonholing myself too early? I don't know a lot about how companies would hire or if they have lots of mcses and less say rhce's.

Sorry kt-own, where are you in life at the moment (age/experiencewise). I assume from your questioning you are just starting out. Are you currently working in IT? If you are just starting out, concentrate on getting that entry level 1st-2nd line job. Often they will be looking for someone with good soft skills and not someone who knows in theory how to set up complex networks but never has in practice.

 

[bigredshark]

bigredshark, would you say that an mcse is too common now in the workplace and I should take something like the linux+ and aim for redhat? As you say, a lot of servers are linux or unix and I may as well get some knowledge about them now. Or is that pigeonholing myself too early? I don't know a lot about how companies would hire or if they have lots of mcses and less say rhce's.

it's common but not too common, while the redhat qualifications stand out a bit more because they're rarer I sort of expect anyone with those to be MCSE (or to that level) as well. It's certainly worth having (or at least an MCP as a starting point) but if I was you I'd try to do it on the job with your employer paying. One of my dislikes of the MCSE is the sheer number of exams involved and the cost of courses and exams involved in doing it.

Bitpiece is right in that an MCSE and CCNA is a very good grounding, it's as good as you need at most smaller companies and larger companies will see it as a good starting point and showing some all round ability.

But at the end of the day it depends what you enjoy, linux is all command line and you'll end up doing heaps of scripting if you do linux administration seriously. So if configuring a postgreSQL database from the command line and scripting analysis of log files sounds like your idea of hell then stay away from linux and unix!

 

[bigredshark]

btw....CCIE & JNCIE?

I'll respect your authority!

JNCIE is pretty easy really (or it is on the M/T series track, can you configure BGP? then you're sorted!), CCIE has been a bit of a slog finding time to study but it's done and dusted now so I can forget all about exams for a few years.

 

[Dist]

bigredshark, did the company you work for pay the bill for your CCIE?

i ask because I was just reading about the CCIE, and its supprising how expensive it is. $315 for a written test is cheaper then i expected, but after that written tests it costs $1400 for each lab test attempt, and them tests can only be done at a select few locations worldwide (Bangalore; Beijing; Brussels; Dubai; Hong Kong; Research Triangle Park, NC; San Jose, CA; São Paulo; Sydney; and Tokyo).

Add on travel costs to those destinations and the CCIE quickly becomes out of a lot of peoples price range, and for that sort of money i daubt all but the some of the biggest/big proffit companies can afford to pay the bill to get their people trained in it.

Also a Cisco survey said that on average, over $9000 is spent to prepare for a CCIE certification, mostly for equipment to practice/test on and books.

 

[daztrouk]

I'm not going to quote the whole thing, but nice post Bitpiece.

 

[bigredshark]

bigredshark, did the company you work for pay the bill for your CCIE?

i ask because I was just reading about the CCIE, and its supprising how expensive it is. $315 for a written test is cheaper then i expected, but after that written tests it costs $1400 for each lab test attempt, and them tests can only be done at a select few locations worldwide (Bangalore; Beijing; Brussels; Dubai; Hong Kong; Research Triangle Park, NC; San Jose, CA; São Paulo; Sydney; and Tokyo).

Add on travel costs to those destinations and the CCIE quickly becomes out of a lot of peoples price range, and for that sort of money i daubt all but the some of the biggest/big proffit companies can afford to pay the bill to get their people trained in it.

Also a Cisco survey said that on average, over $9000 is spent to prepare for a CCIE certification, mostly for equipment to practice/test on and books.

They didn't pay for exams or labs, they did give me paid time to study and I have access to a substancial lab in the office. I did my lab at San Jose (followed by a brief holiday obviously) and I was exceptionally lucky to pass first time (I mean seriously lucky).

I don't think the cost is too bad, if you're taking it, you're already CCNP at the least (CCDP and CCIP too in my case) and probably on a decent wage, £6000 isn't a huge amount over two years when you're on £50k+, time to study is the harder part I found and I had the advantage of being given paid time from work to study.

 

[kt-own]

This will probably sound a bit stupid, but why is it only small/medium businesses that use MS?

 

[bigredshark]

This will probably sound a bit stupid, but why is it only small/medium businesses that use MS?

It isn't at all only SME that use MS, but they use it almost exclusively. If they have a database it'll likely be SQL, if the have email it'll likely be exchange. In larger businesses you'll see more variety, Oracle is a popular database instead of SQL etc and Linux is more widely used for various roles. Broadly there's just more applications required and many of them aren't best provided by microsoft.

I know of loads of 100 user organisations running on nothing but Windows but I don't know of any organisations over 1000 users which run entirely on one OS.

 

[kt-own]

I see. That makes sense (at least to me), you choose the right system for the job whatever that system may be.

You have so many quals shark.! Are there any guys you work with who earn more than you/know more?

 

[bigredshark]

I see. That makes sense (at least to me), you choose the right system for the job whatever that system may be.

You have so many quals shark.! Are there any guys you work with who earn more than you/know more?

It really depends on the area, you can easily be less qualified and be better able to fix a problem if you're seeing faults and working on the kit every day. Cisco wise, the work we do day in day out doesn't requrie the sort of knowledge I have so in real terms plenty of the other guys are as good, in Juniper land though I'm the man.

Linux and windows I don't really do enough with day to day anymore so our systems guys are easily more knowledgable in that area.