Better Body or Better Glass

Derek W

Derek W

Derek W

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Which will get more noticeable results?

I'm thinking about upgrading either the body or a better zoom lens for my sport photography.

Currently using a Canon 450D with 70 - 300 IS USM f4 - 5.6 zoom but I'm not sure whether i should upgrade to the 70 - 200 f2.8 IS if possible (I know its not really a necessity for sporty stuff) or upgrade to a xD body for better ISO handling but still using my current zoom lens.

These past couple of weeks I've been right up at the limit ISO 1600 shutter priority at 1/250 or 1/320 with the aperture flashing giving me darker shots which i later lighten in Photoshop.

So I'm just wondering which upgrade would get me the more noticeable improvement in 'out of camera' image quality. :)
 
If you had a xxD body then i would say glass. The saying that invest in glass is always true as they hold their value really really well. but in your case, i think you will benefit from actually from a 7D than a 70-200 2.8.

Are you planning to upgrade the glass too? Say 6 months?
 
Both :D

I would be leaning toward new glass though because the two stops of extra light is going to the difference between 1/200 for correct exposure to 1/800th. But I don't know what 'freezes' the action for field sports - but i guess 1/800th would do!!

BUt it's a really tough call the 7d is supposed to be great, but I don;t know how well its high ISO is, it's certainly not going to be full frame quality.

Either way you go your going to get better AF - the 450d's central point will autofocus lots better at f2.8. Or at least I find it does. On the other hand a 7d will also autofocus well but could struggle more in the lower light as 5.6 is DARK!! But I don;t know becuase I havent used a 7d and it's supposed to have an AF a bit like the 1d. So I could be wrong. Oh and I assume your sticking with the crop factor of 1.6?

Tough choice. Perhaps go for a xxD and 70-200 non IS? Maybe... [I'm at the horrible phase of body/glass wars too]
 
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I'm sort of running through my mind at yes the 7D / 5D mk2 at a push or 70 - 200 lens.

Answering the what freezes the action question I was advised by a pro photographer never go below 1/250th and as i said I'm struggling to meet that in the winter months. (floodlit second division football by the way)

Raymond i think I'm working on a quick fix just now to see me until march time then the light will become better so I'll be able to shoot with no troubles. It wouldn't be until say sept / oct next year that I'd make the other switch as well so I would benefit from both better glass and better body so shooting in the dark wouldn't be an issue (or less of one at least).
 
I would upgrade the lens first, the 20-700mm non-IS and until money is looser for upgrades, then a better body, e.g. a 5D MKI/II, second hand would probably be cheaper then :)
Right now you need brighter lens to keep the under exposure down, then upgrade the body later to keep the noise down.
 
Derek W said:
...5D mk2 ...
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I think a full frame and 70-200 is going to be far too short for football thats like only using up to 120mm or so on your current set-up.

So if you did go Full Frame you'd be spending more on longer lenses.

Therefore I'd say 7d is the way to go especially becuase of the crop factor, sppedy response, AF & Burst rate.
 
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p0ss3s3d said:
I think a full frame and 70-200 is going to be far too short for football thats like only using up to 120mm or so on your current set-up.
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Currently with my 70 - 300 ok on a cropped sensor, does the job. but now I'm putting photos in the paper I will be pitchside and i generally hang about just beyond the 18yrd line so I can get good penalty box action and if i swing my camera I can get midfield scraps as well so I'm really only working with half the pitch than sitting at the halfway line trying to get all the action from all over the pitch. so i dont really see the downside on the reduction of going full frame with that lens. And if the worst comes to the worst i could always get either a 1.4 or 2.0 tele converter at the expense of a stop or two.
 
You gain the extra stop with the 70-200mm so that will mean shutter speed goes from 1/200 to 1/400, certainly action stopping speed. Going by a guess that the 70-300 goes to 5.6 when at 200mm+ and that you shoot at around that rather than at full 300mm

Better glass holds its value very well as well and will have improved optics too, I would suggest going for glass first.

Depends how you shoot at the moment of course, i'm going to be going for a 70-200 F4 L next month as at the moment i manage to get shots with a 18-55mm 3.5 - 5.6 so having F4 at the long end will be a massive improvement to me
 
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p0ss3s3d said:
I think a full frame and 70-200 is going to be far too short for football thats like only using up to 120mm or so on your current set-up.

So if you did go Full Frame you'd be spending more on longer lenses.

Therefore I'd say 7d is the way to go especially becuase of the crop factor, sppedy response, AF & Burst rate.
Click to expand...

Derek W said:
... I'm putting photos in the paper...
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You can always crop with a 5D - I doubt you will need all 21 mpixels for a newspaper print.
With a 5D and a 70-200F2.8 you get the benefit of F2.8 AND larger sensor elements for high ISO performance.
 
Is there a hack for higher ISO for the 450d? I'm sure I've seen something for the 400d at least. I was thinking of the 70-200 2.8 too (on a 500d) but as I'm spectating in the stands it wouldn't have enough reach. I'm now thinking of the Sigma 100-400 with IS and faster focus than the Tamron 70-300 I currently have.
 
get a 50D and a 70-200 F2.8 EX DG macro.....will give you far better results than the (Barely noticeably better optically) F2.8L IS and a 450D and come in at around the same price

very sharp, very quick focusing

TWP_3976.jpg


TWP_0491_1800x1200.jpg


I'm not one to skimp on camera gear and will generally buy the best, but after using both extensively other than IS and weather sealing i cant see a reason to upgrade from my sigma....
 
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If you have a 450D then I would suggest upgrading the body.

Glass > body most of the time, but in some cases a body upgrade WILL give a noticeable difference, and a better platform on which to build up your collection of lenses.

My 400D > 5D upgrade was the best thing I did.
 
ScarySquirrel said:
If you have a 450D then I would suggest upgrading the body.

Glass > body most of the time, but in some cases a body upgrade WILL give a noticeable difference, and a better platform on which to build up your collection of lenses.

My 400D > 5D upgrade was the best thing I did.
Click to expand...

I'm more inclined towards a new body first, and did look at the 5Dmk1 but on reflection I'm not sure if the increased ISO to 3200 would be sufficient for what I'm using the camera for.

Didn't realise that the 7D was a cropped sensor either but does offer the higher ISO ratings and from what I've seen on DPreview (i think) the noise handling is pretty spectacular, its only once you go up to 6400 that it is really noticeable.

come to the conclusion now that I dont think I'll be able to upgrade till i get paid in January either, forgot about that minor thing called christmas and still having to buy presents could take a dent in the old wallet! :(
 
It's a slippery slope when you get a xD camera, coz at that point you will only consider nothing by L Glass and then you soon realise every lens you are looking at now is around £800 + !

I dread to think what i've spent this year since i got the 5Dii in the summer....(which btw, I had to get a new iMac to go with it as my old P4 just could not handle processing 2,000 x 21mp files in 1 go, it'll probably explode.
 
The standard answer to the "body or glass" question is glass.

But in this case, I don't think so. For two reasons.

1) The 7D is meant to be to be phoenominaly good in low light. This will help you right now - you should be able to bump up the ISO on the 7D and get good results.

2) I firmly believe that there will be a new 70-200 IS released soon. Supplies of the 4 different versions of the 70-200 are drying up round the world, and as this is their most popular white lens, it is a good candidate for the new generation IS. I have the new IS in the 200 and 800 primes and just love it.

So I think: Get the latest generation high sensitivity sensor in the 7D now, then buy the 70-200 2.8 with the new generation. IS when it comes out (my money says that it will be available within the next 6 months.

Andrew
 
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