Bikers beware, the HGV's "Blind Spot"

[Scania]

After a very nasty near miss earlier, I have decided to dig up a thread I posted a while back in Motors.

trucks have massive blind spots, after a brief chat with a biker today who I nearly wiped out, it was apparent that he thought I knew he was where he was when infact I did not.

Almost classic case of "Sorry mate - I didn't see you" if anybody remembers that far back?

The biker in question was trying to pass me on my near side on a large roundabout - as I started to straighten up, thankfully, I saw a reflection of his light on the road behind my trailer!

He was lucky, I had enough space (i.e no on-coming traffic as I exited the roundabout) to swing out wide right & avoid him.

No harm done, we shook hands & went our seperate ways as friends (unusual for some bikers & truckers! )

So I hope this post is taken as intended, as advice.

I'll be the first to say a lot of truckers are complete ****'s and are indeed a bikers worst enemy!


Blind Spots in & around HGV's.

Here we have a diagram that roughly gives an idea of the field of vision for the average artic driver.

Most of this is fairly self-explanatory - Hopefully it's helpful.

The truck cab & trailer is the blue bit.

The darker the shade of green the harder it is for the (truck) driver to see you-ASSUMING HE'S LOOKING IN THE CORRECT MIRROR!

Red areas are completely blind to the driver.

Note the blind areas directly in front and to the right of the cab. They are big enough to lose someone pushing a bike flat against the truck.

Pic1

Pic2

Pic3

Pic4

Pic5

Pic 1) and pic 2) Truck turning left/on a left hand bend.

Rear of the trailer will be moving closer to the kerb and further to the left than the cab.
The cab will be on the white line or even crossing into the other carriageway depending on how sharp the turn is and how wide the road is.
The Driver is HIGHLY unlikely to be looking in his right hand mirror unless to check if the corner of the trailer is in the right hand lane-and all he'll see in it is the headboard of the trailer if he is.
Predominantly he'll be looking in the left mirror/ahead.

Pic 3) Truck going in a straight line.

This is also the same visibility as a rigid or non-articulated vehicle. Assume the driver is using his mirrors only in the direction of travel in a rigid vehicle.
If the truck is stationary or it's safe to do so-(i.e. assuming no oncoming traffic there needs to be no bends in the road coming up and the truck isn't indicating) then this is the safest time to overtake.

DO NOT UNDERTAKE while it's moving-and if you MUST undertake then only do so if you KNOW the truck isn't going to move before you're past.

DO NOT pull up in the nearside red zone by the cab.The kerbside mirror shows very little.

If the driver is going to miss you,unless you're directly behind the trailer this is where he'll miss you while the truck is stationary.

We'd far rather you pulled up directly in front of us and we could see you.

Pic 4) and pic 5) Truck turning right/on a right hand bend.
Rear of the trailer will be on the white line or even crossing into the other carriageway depending on how sharp the turn is and how wide the road is.

BEWARE the back end of the trailer-if this is a very sharp bend, the rear of the trailer will be moving to the left as it pivots round the axles.
This is a SERIOUS crush hazard and the driver CANNOT SEE IT at all and is unlikely to know the trailer has hit someone.

The Driver will be splitting attention between right mirror(back of trailer),left mirror(Is the headboard going to intrude on the path?) and ahead.

If an articulated lorry isn't stopped in a straight line DON'T undertake. Your chances of being seen are slim if the trailer is bent left and nil if its bent right and you're likely to get crushed as either the cab or trailer will be coming very close to the kerb.

For the same reason, don't ride up behind one in the red zone at speed then pass-the driver may already have committed to a manoeuvre because his mirrors look clear.


I hope the powers that be sticky this for a while.

Cheers.

 

[Scania]

Saying that I have never had a problem with HGV's whilst's on the bike other than diesel spilllage!!

Thats a big issue - I often see drivers "Brimming" their tanks when fuelling at depots, they don't realise the overspill is then dumped at the next roundabout for you guys (I don't ride myself) to deal with.

I try to educate them as to why they should not brim the tanks, some listen, some don't, some are clueless many just careless.

 

[Scania]

Surely this sort of stuff is taught and part of the test ?

MW

Its something that your instructor drums into you during your HGV training, afaik, its not mentioned to either car drivers or bikers in tests or training - which explains why so many cars & bikes seem to always get into the trucks blind spots - many drivers don't think behind the wheel about what they are doing at the best of times add ignorance to that mix and its a recipie for near disaster like I experienced earlier.

 

[Scania]

Perhaps the haulage companies should get some trucks that are designed to not have huge blind spots, or to fit some cameras ... some buses have side cameras fitted for instance, all it would take was 1 camera on each side and one on the back of the trailer..

Most busses are not articulated, this mornings incident for example, matey was in the red area in the picture here, to the left of my trailer, roughly in the middle of it's length.

Side facing cameras on the tractor would not pick him up due to the angle of the trailer, and a rear camera would miss him as he's approached me from an exit on my left.

Cameras or not, with a 53ft artic, you still get huge blind spots & peeps need to be aware of them.

 

[Scania]

Out of interest, why does the diesel come out of the tanks at roundabouts when brimmed?
I thought truck tanks had locking fuel caps?

Yes, they have locking caps, but thats not where the fuel leak comes from.

Most fuel spills on roundabouts & bends come from overflow pipes, on a Scania for example, the overflow is on the top of the tank, if the truck goes around a sharp bend with overfull tanks, the overflow does the rest.

(The black thing on the top of the tank that loops behind is said overflow pipe)

 

[Scania]

Well there is that yes, but you bring in a regulation that states "you must be able to see positions, x,y,z from the cab" and leave it up to the industry to find a way to do it (same rules as exist for cars)

I quite agree, but won't be holding my breath in anticipation of any regulation changes.

Why did he try to get past? Surely he could have just waited and got past at a later time?

I don't know, suicidal? just plain nuts? he may have been tired, it was around 05:40....

Perhaps he did not know, perhaps he did not think.

Your guess is as good as mine mate, he said he thought I could see him...

I reckon a lot of biker truck run ins are caused by impatient / inexperienced riders... But its not just riders I see cars doing it all the time too, people just don't realise the lines trucks have to take to go round roundabout etc..

This also.

I always go by if I can't see their mirrors, they can't see me.

Even if you're in a car, a lorry will win in a fight. That's a good incentive to give lorries lots of room.

Both right too.

Cheers for the replys - I was not expecting quite the reaction I have had to this thread, I'm pleased it was taken as intended.

 

[Scania]

I'm pleased at the reply's here, you guys must be some unique breed - most bikers I encounter seem to be hell bent on death or glory!

Some of the risks I see (not just in & around the truck) I scarcely believe even though I see them for myself.

Luck or Lunacy, one or t'other.

 

[Scania]

That's interesting, do they not have a cap? I was following an HGV a few months back, a load of diesel sloshed over my car coming off a roundabout so I waved him over at the next lay by and told him his cap was off, he thanked me and I disappeared...

Also, I may just be making this up... but I'm fairly sure the fuel was a pretty bright pink when it came out. Lorry drivers shouldn't be using red diesel should they? Does it happen often?

Yes they do have fuel caps - see post #12 - sounds like the chap you encountered did not tighten his up.

As for the fuel, yes, that sounds like "Red Diesel", it was probably coming from a secondary tank somewhere on the truck / trailer, and would be seperate from the engines fuel system which would (or should!) be white diesel. The red diesel tank's most likely use would be for running a "reefer unit" , "reefer's" - refregerated - trucks.

 

[Scania]

Sorry to be a pedant, but that pipe coming from the tank is a breather pipe and not an overflow pipe. It is there to prevent over pressurisation of the tank by releasing vapour when the fuel expands (due to heat). The little black thing between the tank and pipe is a safety valve which lifts at a predetermined pressure which then diverts the excess gas to atmosphere. Should this valve or breather not be fitted, buckling of the tank will occur followed by the tank welds failing.
It just so happens that when the tank is too full and the fuel expands, the safety valve lifts letting the pressure and fuel (in this case) escape from the tank.

Thanks for that - I bow to your greater knowledge.

I described them as overflow's as thats how they were described to me by a fitter at work - I'll slap him next time I see him!

 

[Scania]

Just thought I'd give this old relic of a thread a bump after nearly taking out a biker this morning (05:45) just off the A13 near West Thurrock, he came up my inside on a roundabout near the shopping centre, how I missed him or the on coming Van I don't know, I'm just glad I somehow saw him, just in time.

Bikers - indeed anybody - beware a trucks blind spots and don't come up the inside of one, please.

 

[Scania]

If we take you as an 'averge' lorry driver (not that I'm suggesting there's anything average about you) would it be safe to assume that most lorries have a near miss/incident at least once every three years?

I'm sure I'm average! Neither the best nor, I hope, the worst!

Alas, near misses are probably weekly occurrences(!) it's why we're trained to "drive defensively", were encouraged to take up as much road space as possible to prevent other vehicles trying to come past if we know we need the space they intend to take. Often this is taken as agressive by the other drivers, they don't seem to realise we're allowing for them and often preventing them getting flattened!!
Most road users take unbelievable risks around HGVs whilst seemingly being oblivious to the consequences of that risk going bad.

This style of driving I guess must work, bar a car aqua planing into me on the M1 a few years back I'm yet - touch wood - to have an incident / accident involving a 3rd party whilst driving my HGV.


Near misses are sadly part & parcel, if I had £10 for each one, I'd be rather richer than I am!!