Billionaires pay "0% - 0.5% tax" report finds - Suggests 2% minimum tax.

[VincentHanna]

Saw this on the BBC, and can't say I was surprised to find that billionaires don't pay anywhere near the same percentage of tax as most people. I think I was surprised at how little they do pay - Some literally pay nothing

Billionaires should face a minimum tax rate, according to a report which found some of the world's mega-wealthy are paying little to no tax.

The EU Tax Observatory said most people pay a higher rate than the super-rich, who, it said, are able to use complex business structures for avoidance.

It suggested a minimum 2% tax rate on billionaires' global wealth would raise $250bn (£205bn) a year.

There are around 2,500 billionaires with a combined wealth of $13 trillion.

The report by EU Tax Observatory, part of the Paris School of Economics, examined how successful efforts to ensure individuals and companies pay their fair share have been over the past 10 years.

It said that the automatic sharing of the wealthy's account information across more than 100 countries had significantly reduced offshore tax evasion.

However, billionaires are able to get away with paying tax rates equal to 0% or 0.5% of their wealth "due to the frequent use of shell companies to avoid income taxation", it said.

Billionaires should face a minimum tax rate, report says

A 2% rate on the world's wealthy could raise as much as $250bn a year, a report suggests.

www.bbc.co.uk

You can argue that even 0.5% of billions is still a lot of money, but as the report opens with a statement that if people keep seeing the mega wealthy getting away with very little taxation as a percentage of their income then they too might start to not pay taxes and thus democracy will then ultimately be at stake:

"If citizens don't believe that everyone is paying their fair share of taxes - and especially if they see the rich and rich corporations not paying their fair share - then they will begin to reject taxation.

"Why should they hand over their hard-earned money when the wealthy don't? This glaring tax disparity undermines the proper functioning of our democracy; it deepens inequality, weakens trust in our institutions, and erodes the social contract."

Thoughts on this? Should the World attempt to come together to agree on this, or will there always be a "tax-neutral" country out their like Cayman Island and Bahamas' willing to let the mega-rich pay nothing?

My company is paying 25p to the government for every £1 I make, and then I also get taxed 33.75% on any income I take out of the business above 50k.

I'd love to pay 0.5% tax, but I also know countries would collapse if everyone did it.

 

[plasmahal]

Which Billionaires in the UK don't pay their taxes?

 

[413x]

Has to be the world. And it has to come.

I can't get my head around billionaires myself.

I'd never become a billionaire. I'd quit and enjoy life long before I got there. It's a totally different mind set that I can't relate to.

What does billions give you that millions doesn't?

It needs to come.. The alternative is just an ever increasing wealth divide until the ordinary people have so little.. It all ends in tears.



But it'll never be world wide. Well, I can't ever see it myself. They'll always be a tax haven.

 

[ltron]

But it'll never be world wide. Well, I can't ever see it myself. They'll always be a tax haven.

It's more difficult to do that with physical assets though, the most valuable ones are not in tax havens for obvious reasons.

There has been a significant level of success with Biden's 15% global minimum corporation tax (and it's much better than nothing even if it isn't fully global) so I'm somewhat more optimistic.

 

[VincentHanna]

Which Billionaires in the UK don't pay their taxes?

The report doesn't single anyone out in particular.

But:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, UK's richest person, moves to tax-free Monaco

Brexiter Ineos boss, who has an estimated £17.5bn fortune, officially changes tax domicile

www.theguardian.com

And

1. Only one name, the Weston family, appears both among the top 10 in both last year’s Sunday Times Rich List and today’s new Tax List. (Sir James Dyson and family, number 4 on the Rich List, are at number 11 on the Tax List)
   
   
2. Today’s Sunday Times Tax List records the UK’s top 10 taxpayers in year ending April 2021 as:
   
   1. Denise, John and Peter Coates, gambling, £481.7 million
   2. Chris Rokos, hedge fund, £300.0 million
   3. Stephen Rubin (and family), sportswear, £256.1 million
   4. The Weston family, retailing, £175.4 million
   5. Fred and Peter Done, gambling, £169.8 million
   6. Lord Sugar, property, £163.4 million
   7. Peter Harris (and family), hotels and caravan parks, £141.4 million
   8. Sir Chris Hohn, hedge fund, £126.1 million
   9. Leonie Schroder and family, finance, £121.2 million
   10. Alex Gerko, finance, £117.4 million
   
   The most recent Sunday Times Rich List, published in May 2021, identified the UK’s wealthiest as:
   1. Sir Leonard Blavatnik, £23bn
   2. David and Simon Reuben, £21.465bn
   3. Sri and Gopi Hinduja and family, £17bn
   4. Sir James Dyson and family, £16.3bn
   5. Lakshmi Mittal and family, £14.68bn
   6. Alisher Usmanov, £13.406bn
   7. Kirsten and Jorn Rausing, £13bn
   8. Roman Abramovich, £12.101bn
   9. Charlene de Carvalho-Heineken and Michel de Carvalho, £12.013bn
   10. The Weston family, £11bn

 

[Mason-]

How many employees do all of these billionaires have in their multiple corporations and how much tax is generated from PAYE etc. by those employees? How many jobs has Bezos provided via amazon? The value they bring to society isn't entirely about how much tax the CEOs pay directly imo. It's a tricky balance, if you deter them from your country they will move some operations from your country, meaning 1000s of jobs are lost. What's more important 1000s of jobs or taxing the head of the business more? It's not a simplistic decision for governments to make. Ultimately governments care about (un)employment rates and GDP. These big billionaires and where they decide to invest their money can influence those 2 things greatly.

Don't get me wrong, it is on the face of it unfair that they pay a rate which is less than workers. But a lot of their wealth isn't a 'salary' paid every month like us. It's holed up in shares etc. And when they sell it they will be liable for CGT.

The schemes for avoidance such as these overseas territories, are terrible. But really, it can't be solved without international cooperation and that's never going to work. See: human history.

 

[sidimmu]

About time, a lot of countries issues could be resolved if the very wealthy and high profit business' actually paid their stated tax bill.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Yea what I do for a living, some of the people I look into earning a lot of money and basically don't pay much/any tax.

Well paid accountants can sort that out for you.

It's disgraceful really, but then you think, if you are within the law then why not?

The thing that gets me is if you are PAYE, you get screwed the most, particularly if you start going over 50k p/a, and it doesn't seem fair that portfolio landlords with hundreds of properties making tens of thousands a month, seem to somehow not pay any.

 

[Brazo]

I’m not a billionaire.

I don’t object to them paying little tax because.

They’ll still be paying far more than I would.
They aren’t using services such as schools and hospitals that I would.

They get a pretty bad deal in that respect, pay far more tax than the ordinary person and yet get nothing for it!

We should focus on those who aren’t paying any tax rather than those already paying a **** ton and yet for some reason we want them to pay more!

 

[sidimmu]

I’m not a billionaire.

I don’t object to them paying little tax because.

They’ll still be paying far more than I would.
They aren’t using services such as schools and hospitals that I would.

They get a pretty bad deal in that respect, pay far more tax than the ordinary person and yet get nothing for it!

We should focus on those who aren’t paying any tax rather than those already paying a **** ton and yet for some reason we want them to pay more!

Daily Mail told you that one?

 

[bloodiedathame]

They should probably look at corporations as well. Especially considering the damages they do to society and the environment.

 

[plasmahal]

Daily Mail told you that one?

Communist troll in da house....

Feel free to add to the thread (I know you won't).

 

[StriderX]

How many employees do all of these billionaires have in their multiple corporations and how much tax is generated from PAYE etc. by those employees? How many jobs has Bezos provided via amazon? The value they bring to society isn't entirely about how much tax the CEOs pay directly imo. It's a tricky balance, if you deter them from your country they will move some operations from your country, meaning 1000s of jobs are lost. What's more important 1000s of jobs or taxing the head of the business more? It's not a simplistic decision for governments to make. Ultimately governments care about (un)employment rates and GDP. These big billionaires and where they decide to invest their money can influence those 2 things greatly.

Don't get me wrong, it is on the face of it unfair that they pay a rate which is less than workers. But a lot of their wealth isn't a 'salary' paid every month like us. It's holed up in shares etc. And when they sell it they will be liable for CGT.

The schemes for avoidance such as these overseas territories, are terrible. But really, it can't be solved without international cooperation and that's never going to work. See: human history.

Europe was growing prior to all this money printing and now it is not, yet America seems to avoid the bulk of this stagnancy. Where did all that money go? Certainly not into the hands of the plebs... it merely collected itself in the piggy banks of tech giants and out out of economies completely for the sole benefit of keeping these 'job providers' happy.

 

[sidimmu]

Communist troll in da house....

Feel free to add to the thread (I know you won't).

Already added a post to the thread, not that I have to justify myself to you.
Communist troll? Far from it, if that's what you judge me as for insulting your sacred scribble, than that says more about you, than it does me.

Now lets have a look what you have provided to this topic;

Which Billionaires in the UK don't pay their taxes?

Communist troll in da house....

Maybe you should look at providing something suitable or even a comment about the topic before you go trying to pick on other users.
Daily mail readers for you.

 

[plasmahal]

The report doesn't single anyone out in particular.

But:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, UK's richest person, moves to tax-free Monaco

Brexiter Ineos boss, who has an estimated £17.5bn fortune, officially changes tax domicile

www.theguardian.com

And

Realistically, this is only really relevant to those wealthy people residing in the UK. We know the UK has plenty of loopholes that many governments for decades have not sorted out.

Also, how many people mentioned have their wealth in actual cash and or yearly income. Usually their wealth is measured in assets rather than what income tax etc can be paid on like us peasants.

Until a government (left or right) closes the tax loopholes, nothing will change.

 

[kindai]

I dont even understand what the difficulty in taxing these people is.

It could be very simple, if something is sold and generates a profit in country X, then it is taxed at the point of sale in that country, regardless of where the company bases itself.

 

[200sols]

And when they sell it they will be liable for CGT

Which is 20% or 28% depending on the asset. What's your tax rate? 40/45%?

 

[Roar87]

Yeah Billionaires should probably pay more tax. However, I know loads of self employed people and exactly none of them pay the amount of tax they should be paying, they all pay as little tax as they can get away with. The only people paying correct tax are PAYE because we can't choose how much of our salary we decide to declare.

 

[plasmahal]

I dont even understand what the difficulty in taxing these people is.

It could be very simple, if something is sold and generates a profit in country X, then it is taxed at the point of sale in that country, regardless of where the company bases itself.

You are forgetting the people do not get taxed, it's the corporation that sells the item.

 

[plasmahal]

Yeah Billionaires should probably pay more tax. However, I know loads of self employed people and exactly none of them pay the amount of tax they should be paying, they all pay as little tax as they can get away with. The only people paying correct tax are PAYE because we can't choose how much of our salary we decide to declare.

We are the ones getting mugged by the system as it is fixed for us.