BMW "regeneration cycle" eh?!

[[TW]Fox]

I'm certain that the vast majority of new BMWs are company car purchases and many of the drivers don't give a hoot for them. They have service histories because they are sold with servicing in the lease contract or whatever.

You've also missed my point. It aids buying the car - you can tell if a car is ex-lease and therefore make an informed decision whether you avoid it or not.

It's most useful when buying from a private seller.

A full service history means nothing on any brand really, just that it's been to a dealer x times in it's life.

When I bought my 5 Series the amount of BMW history was almost universally proportional to the condition of the car. The shabby ones had patchy history or history at Bobs garage and 4 linglong tyres, the immaculately perfect ones had 4 premium brand tyres, a stack of BMW invoices and full history.

You are looking for a car where there is absolutely no evidence that 'Hmmm, I wonder if I could get that done cheaper' has ever entered the owners head when running that car. FBMWSH is one of the key things that helps you make that judgement call. Once you've bought it you can of course do what you want with it if you dont care about resale, as you'll know yourself about the quality of the work. But when buying, you don't really want to gamble with a car where there is evidence to suggest corners have been cut.

It's pointless arguing with me because the market agrees - it also doesnt matter whether it's 'right' because thats how it is. We all know that a car looked after by a really skilled and reputable specialist (I have now decided that indy is a stupid word being used as a catch-all to all non-main-dealers) is probably going to have been worked on to a higher standard, but Joe Public doesnt think like that and it's often hard to tell who the good indys and the bad indys.

Try selling your TT in 3 years time with Full Audi History and with full history from ABC Motors down the road and see which car sells for the most money.

It's universally accepted that full dealer history on a car like this is important - and because it's universally accepted it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy because the ones without it are less desireable on the used market.

 

[Fr0dders]

why does it need to be owned by somebody who took a no expense spared attitude to car ownership ?

I've owned cars in the past that haven't been owned by such owners (my old Xsara Picasso springs to mind) but didnt give me a minutes trouble.

 

[Django x2]

My 530d got stuck in a regen cycle. BMW were able to reset it. Although as has already been said, petrols don't have DPFs

 

[Pete19s]

Mines been in for its oil service today and although the service guy never mentioned it I had a bit of paper stapled to the reciepts with the tyre depths on it. The front ones were something like FR 1.6, 5 and 3mm with the FL 2, 4 and 2mm. I thought it was a bit low so just been out to check both are roughly the same with the inside at 3.9mm getting deeper towards the outside at 5.6mm. Don't know if they were trying it on or it was incompetence.

Didn't Fox have a similar query when he had an MOT afew moons ago? They were not trying it on and even showed him how it was measured.

 

[Saytan]

why does it need to be owned by somebody who took a no expense spared attitude to car ownership ?

I've owned cars in the past that haven't been owned by such owners (my old Xsara Picasso springs to mind) but didnt give me a minutes trouble.

why wouldnt you buy the best one you can?

 

[Django x2]

why wouldnt you buy the best one you can?

Again, he's living in this little dream world whereby the only good cars are those that are serviced by dealers.

When you get to my age and have owned a comparative number of cars, you realise this is not the case. I hark back to my issues last year when my car went to a BMW dealer for a simple oil change which resulted in them replacing my turbo and increasing my warranty for 6 months because they over filled it with oil.

A cars condition is more akin to the owner of the vehicle. BMW don't wash my car, or wax / polish it, or vac the inside or treat the leather. I do all those things. It's me that spends time looking after it or choosing to get things fixed like my alloys, stone chips, etc. Not BMW.

I choose to have my car services at BMW because I can (although in this case, I have a lease service agreement). Normally, I service a car witha dealer until the warranty expires, then it goes to an independent, who, in most circles of ownership, will have a better reputation than the dealer, and prospective owners (who have done their research) will know that such independents are highly valued.

 

[Scania]

You don't really suit smart remarks, I think you need a bit more practice.

I missed this....

Practice? Your the one who has over 105,000 posts yet seems to not know what the rolleyes means on here.... (Sarcastic if you bother to check)

Brush up!

 

[Saytan]

Again, he's living in this little dream world whereby the only good cars are those that are serviced by dealers.

When you get to my age and have owned a comparative number of cars, you realise this is not the case. I hark back to my issues last year when my car went to a BMW dealer for a simple oil change which resulted in them replacing my turbo and increasing my warranty for 6 months because they over filled it with oil.

A cars condition is more akin to the owner of the vehicle. BMW don't wash my car, or wax / polish it, or vac the inside or treat the leather. I do all those things. It's me that spends time looking after it or choosing to get things fixed like my alloys, stone chips, etc. Not BMW.

I choose to have my car services at BMW because I can (although in this case, I have a lease service agreement). Normally, I service a car witha dealer until the warranty expires, then it goes to an independent, who, in most circles of ownership, will have a better reputation than the dealer, and prospective owners (who have done their research) will know that such independents are highly valued.

it's an overall thing really - you want to feel the owner has lavished plenty of cash on the car. A dealer history is a good simple indicator of this...

mine doesnt have full dealer history (good indy specialists after the warranty), but little things made me feel it had been looked after as it needs to be - like new front brake calipers a month before the previous owner *knew* he had to sell it due to impending second child

 

[dalin80]

The better kind of EGR is to have a phase variator on the exhaust camshaft, which recent enough versions of VANOS do.


.

Phase variators have as many issues as traditional EGR systems.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Again, he's living in this little dream world whereby the only good cars are those that are serviced by dealers.

That is not what I said.

When you get to my age and have owned a comparative number of cars, you realise this is not the case.

Wow, what a patheticaly pretentious thing to say. 'Your age'? You are in your 20's like everyone else, and your first BMW is one you bought with full history from a main dealer!

Let me just stop laughing about how you tried to come across there, then I can continue with my reply. Just lol.

I hark back to my issues last year when my car went to a BMW dealer for a simple oil change which resulted in them replacing my turbo and increasing my warranty for 6 months because they over filled it with oil.

I have repeatedly stated how it isn't neccesarily about the quality of the car but the ownership ethos.

Like I said - when I was buying a 4-5 year old 5 Series, almost without exception the shabby ones were the ones where the owner had also skimped on things like servicing costs and tyre costs, whereas the immaculate examples where clearly money was never an issue were usually the ones with full history, etc etc.

This is where your experience and mine differ. You leased a 1 year old car from a main dealer. You cant really go wrong. I bought a 4 year old car from the private used market where there is a huge amount of scope for going very wrong indeed. It's here that you need to be very careful what you are wasting hundreds of miles going to view because there is a LOT of dross owned by people who cant really afford them.

If I am so wrong then the right history would make NO difference to the cars value. We all know it does - therefore I am right.

Remember it is ALL about PERCEPTION of buyers not the facts. Car values are driven by perception and the market perceives that full dealer history is better than full random garage history.

FBMWSH is part of the overall package of things you look for to give you the confidence that the car wasn't owned by somebody who couldnt really afford to keep it and looked to cut corners where possible.

What you then choose to do yourself is entirely your choice - you may feel it's better cared for at a place you trust and you are probably right - but don't cry when it hurts the resale value and stop with this ridiculous notion that my opinion is based on anything but the story told by the full history rather than some sort of ridiculous opinion that all BMW dealers are perfect.

This forum knows I've had my fair share of BMW dealer cockups!

 

[[TW]Fox]

mine doesnt have full dealer history (good indy specialists after the warranty), but little things made me feel it had been looked after as it needs to be - like new front brake calipers a month before the previous owner *knew* he had to sell it due to impending second child

Was yours the blue one or the silver one at the last meet? I hope it was the silver one

 

[Saytan]

Was yours the blue one or the silver one at the last meet? I hope it was the silver one

i didnt make it to the last meet.

mine is silver though.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I was thinking of the August one.

 

[Saytan]

nope, didnt make that one either.

 

[Django x2]

That is not what I said.



Wow, what a patheticaly pretentious thing to say. 'Your age'? You are in your 20's like everyone else, and your first BMW is one you bought with full history from a main dealer!

Let me just stop laughing about how you tried to come across there, then I can continue with my reply. Just lol.

Hi, I'm 31 and this is my 3rd BMW

You seem to want to justify that full dealer history is in someway better than just a full, concise, accurate history. What's even more funny is that numerous times, dealers have been aired on programs such as Watchdog over false stamps in books to make a car appear better on their forecourt than it actually is. Dealers are franchised, it isn't some magic ticket to BMW (or any other manufacturer) standards and servicing.

A car, in good condition, serviced regularly with history, will hold it's value just as well against a car with full dealer service history.

Furthermore, most motorists would probably purchase a car from likes of BMW with it labelled as AUC (of which, full BMWSH is not a prerequisite) than on service history alone.

Buying privately, I see no issue with any full SH, as stated, that reflects the cars age and condition and is accurate when you sit down and compare MOTs with work carried out.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Just dont rely on a full service history being accurate without checking with the dealers that carried it out. My Vectra has full Vauxhall service history but has never seen a vauxhall dealer. I agree with Fox when buying a car its always nice to see a service book with main dealer stamps in the book and a nice wodge of reciepts is always good too. Just remember it does not mean the car is a good one and a good check over of the car is always a must, service history does not mean its guaranteed to be a good car...

 

[[TW]Fox]

You seem to want to justify that full dealer history is in someway better than just a full, concise, accurate history.

Thats what the market says.

What's even more funny is that numerous times, dealers have been aired on programs such as Watchdog over false stamps in books to make a car appear better on their forecourt than it actually is.

Why would dealers do this if stamps in the book don't make a car appear better? We are getting somewhere at least it seems.

Dealers are franchised, it isn't some magic ticket to BMW (or any other manufacturer) standards and servicing.

How many times do I have to explain that this isn't my point and I am acutely aware of how useless many dealers are?

A car, in good condition, serviced regularly with history, will hold it's value just as well against a car with full dealer service history.

No, it won't.

Lets both try and sell a 2007 530d M Sport Auto shall we? Identical in every way but one has a fully stamped main dealer history and the other has a history at other, non franchised dealers.

One is worth less than the other. This is well known. I dont want to argue with you as to how justified this is because it's irrelevent - it's worth more. You even hinted you knew this when you explained the lengths some dodgy dealers go to to make sure the stock they sell has that all important stamped book!

Buying privately, I see no issue with any full SH, as stated, that reflects the cars age and condition and is accurate when you sit down and compare MOTs with work carried out.

You buy your cars your way, I'll buy mine my way. If it works for you, thats great.

It still wont change the fact that on higher value cars like BMW's, the full dealer history will trump the independant history in the resale stakes most of the time. Some of this is misguided and useless - yes there are genuinelly people out here who think if its stamped by a main dealer it got Triple A grade work done it. They are obviously wrong but they think that and it's buyer perception that can drive market value. As long as they continue thinking that, full dealer history will continue to win in the resale stakes.

Look at the post above mine by Moogleys. Moogleys is a private punter who will one day buy another car used. What does he think about dealer stamps?

I agree with Fox when buying a car its always nice to see a service book with main dealer stamps in the book

He thinks that. He might be wrong. He could be deluded. He could be a raving lunatic, but he thinks that and he isnt alone - loads of other people think this as well. And guess what the effect on residuals for cars without the dealer stamps are?

I completely accept that for you personally, looking through a bundle of paperwork from a non franchised dealer is something you'd prefer to do. Thats fine, if it works for you, great. But that isn't really the argument here. Just because you are comfortable with it doesn't mean the entire rest of the market is and it's foolish to try and deny that having dealer history on late model premium cars doesnt result in better residuals.

 

[DM]

Depends on the brand, certain makes having a specialist history wont make the car less desirable.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Depends on the brand, certain makes having a specialist history wont make the car less desirable.

Certain makes it won't, no. I suspect if you are trying to buy something quite niche like perhaps a classic Jaguar most of your target market will run a mile if they don't see one of the few reputable, nationally reknowned specialists in the service book.

Similarily when buying a 5 year old Focus or something not having a Ford history isn't the end of the world either - it's a much cheaper car and there is far less to go wrong as well.

That said the full Ford history is what convinced me to drive 200 miles to view my Mondeo years ago. The sub £4k Mondeo market was awash with abused crap, I figured that if this guy was still servicing his 100k mile Mk2 Mondeo at a main dealer he probably wasn't cheaping out and fitting Linglongs and pattern suspension arms. And when I saw the car, fancy that, I was right. But thats a different argument.

There are two arguments at play here.

a) Full dealer history makes no difference to residual value.

This is clearly wrong - it is a fact that it does make a difference.

b) Buying a car with full dealer history is a better option

This is purely subjective. I agree with that statement but it's entirely possible to disagree with it, too, depending on your thought process.

 

[Django x2]

Why would dealers do this if stamps in the book don't make a car appear better? We are getting somewhere at least it seems.

You miss my point, or you avoided it. What I meant was, you are happy to buy a car based solely on the fact there are franchised dealer stamps in the book, even though they could have been put there with no real knowledge of the cars service history? As dealers are franchised, does this make the people who work there any different in skill or knowledge to an indy / non franchised dealer. No, so why pay for it when you have the ability to exercise common sense?

I fancy my mindset is more one of trust and understanding. Mr Joe Blogs will probably quite happily buy a car with full dealer SH because he understands it to be less hassle, and is prepared to pay the premium for it. I don't really trust dealers and throughout my car ownership life I have never been relieved that the car I bought had FDSH.

A real car enthusiast who really knows their marque and model will happily buy a car based on sound judgement, thorough research and conditional appreciation (and as much as I personally would not) based on FDSH, SH or no SH.

Therefore, I have to class you as Mr Joe Blogs.

It also stems irrelevant about the resale value of the car in question if when you bought it, you went for the car with no dealer SH, as it would have been cheaper to buy than one with FDSH. In which case, you will know only too well that you won't get as much for it when you sell it on, but this is of little concern, because you didn't pay the same as Joe Blogs in the first place.