BMW "regeneration cycle" eh?!
- Thread starter Cosmic182
- Start date
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I have never said that.
Do you think I'm stupid or something?
That is one of the things I said before you waded in. Where does that imply it's the only thing I will consider? Why can't you read?
Would you like a dictionary definition of 'helps' or something?
Of course you have to, because you can't read. There is absolutely no way I'd buy any car based SOLELY on one single factor. There are a number of criteria that a car must fulfill - the right service history is merely one of these criteria.
The original comment which triggered this came about because of somebody who ALREADY owned a BMW having issues with a dealer. So they've not 'benefited' from buying a cheaper car without the BMW history.
You can't read, and it's getting frustrating now.
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Of course I can read, it's your justification for the amazing letters FDSH which is getting frustrating!
The way you've argued, you would appear to choose a car solely on one factor.
Take two identical cars, one with FDSH and one with FSH. Both are next to each other and in identical condition, good brand tyres, fine paint, clean interior. The FSH is £1000 cheaper than the FDSH.
Honestly, which one would you buy? If it's the one with FDSH, then the reason for your decision is the history, a sole factor (as all others are equal).
They haven't gained from it either!
To put this to rest, I just asked my GF, who cares little for cars apart from the fact her Swift Sport starts and gets her from A to B, and who is of sound, intelligent mind, her views on buying a car with FDSH and FSH.
Her response was one that I would expect from an intellectual who can reason beyond the OMGFBMWSH. She said, "It would depend if I really knew which car I wanted and had done the research into the relevant pitfalls, things to look out for, etc. If the car had a full history, I would buy it. Dealer stamps really mean very little and are used to squeeze out a few more pounds from customers on the forecourt"
The way you've argued, you would appear to choose a car solely on one factor.
Take two identical cars, one with FDSH and one with FSH. Both are next to each other and in identical condition, good brand tyres, fine paint, clean interior. The FSH is £1000 cheaper than the FDSH.
Honestly, which one would you buy? If it's the one with FDSH, then the reason for your decision is the history, a sole factor (as all others are equal).
They haven't gained from it either!
To put this to rest, I just asked my GF, who cares little for cars apart from the fact her Swift Sport starts and gets her from A to B, and who is of sound, intelligent mind, her views on buying a car with FDSH and FSH.
Her response was one that I would expect from an intellectual who can reason beyond the OMGFBMWSH. She said, "It would depend if I really knew which car I wanted and had done the research into the relevant pitfalls, things to look out for, etc. If the car had a full history, I would buy it. Dealer stamps really mean very little and are used to squeeze out a few more pounds from customers on the forecourt"
I suspect you just don't really understand my point.
Confirmed then, you don't.
That's pretty much a 'trap' though isnt it. You are probably going to say it's the same as my previous example where I illustrated residual value but it isn't. You've produced a scenario which I'd never find existed and I cannot answer it without falling into the trap.
If I say I'd buy the non FMDSH car, then I end up contradicting my opinion.
If I say I'd buy the dealer history car, then I end up demonstrating that I would buy a car on one sole factor, which in reality, I never would.
You really are a nightmare to debate something with. You've asked a girl who has no interest in this sort of car about the importance of dealer history. Great. I'll ignore what she said as it's irrelevent. My girlfriend wouldnt care either.
You have misunderstood the points made in this thread so dramatically we are now miles from the original point and I can't really see a way back to it.
The fact it does squeeze more pounds from customers on the forecourt demonstrates the stronger residual does exist.
Here is a quote of mine from before you entered this thread:
In an attempt to try and clarify the points I've made throughout this thread, my reasoning behind them, etc etc, I shall sum up my opinion.
PART 1: Residual Value
It is fact that a car at this end of the market without full dealer history is less desireable on the used market than a car with. I think we both agree here.
PART 2: Why I personally buy cars with full dealer history
When I buy a car from a private seller, I am as much 'buying' the seller as I am his car. I like to buy cars from people far more wealthy than I am, who have a money no object approach to car ownership. This way I find I am more likely (Note: More likely. Not certain. NOTHING is certain is used cars) to find a car which fit what I am looking for. I look for various things. Is the car for sale outside a nice house? Is the seller well spoken? Can he communicate properly over email? Has he always fitted the premium tyres the car came with or similar alternatives? Are there ANY signs at all he's ever weighed up cost when dealing with anything to do with the car? And the full history thing comes under that.
I *know* that many dealers are crap. I know that a minority of independants are reputable and true specialists of the marque. But generally speaking a lot of the time the decision to go outside the network will be taken on grounds of cost. That's fine - heck, I've done it myself! I don't get everything fixed at BMW! but it's not what I am after in the ownership history of a car I buy. I want to buy from the rich guy who simply throws his chequebook at the dealer when there is so much as a squeek from the seat.
I tend to buy cars with a very specific spec which are hard to find. This means I often find that cars I wish to view are hundreds and hundreds of miles away. Therefore by using my criteria to filter away cars which are likely to not be worth the bother, I save on wasted journeys to view shabby nails.
And eventually end up with the perfect example.
Somebody else can take a gamble on why the guy decided to take his 4 year old BMW to Bobs Motors. He might even come out better.
Here is another crucial point for you - I understand that my car buying criteria WILL mean I miss the odd perfect car. I know this because using my criteria, I would not buy my own car. I've been outside the dealer network. I am not rich. etc etc.
But in missing the odd perfect car, I also miss the junk. I'll still go and view stuff which doesnt quite meet my criteria if it isnt far - which is how I've discovered that they were all crap - but I'm not doing the 400 mile round trip unless it ticks all the boxes.
As a result, I've been absolutely satisfied with both of my previous cars, and people regularly commented on quite how well kept they were.
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It's not a trap at all. I was faced with the exact dilema described (not the E60 I might add as I could barely find one with the stuff I actually wanted) 
. I chose the car without FDSH as I saved about £1k. It wasn't a premium marque though but it's resale was worth probably about £200 less than a similar spec car with FDSH. Queue an immediate ownership saving of £800.
I'm not really trying to argue here. More to stress the point that, from experience, full dealer service history is not the be all and end all of car buying and to put it up there as even a high factor, shows, imo, an ill gained understanding of what you should really be looking for when buying a car.
BTW, I love your sig. Prospective purchase??
. I chose the car without FDSH as I saved about £1k. It wasn't a premium marque though but it's resale was worth probably about £200 less than a similar spec car with FDSH. Queue an immediate ownership saving of £800. I'm not really trying to argue here. More to stress the point that, from experience, full dealer service history is not the be all and end all of car buying and to put it up there as even a high factor, shows, imo, an ill gained understanding of what you should really be looking for when buying a car.
BTW, I love your sig. Prospective purchase??
So the FDSH one was overpriced anyway.
I dont know if you saw my edit, but I added a complete explanation of why and how I choose a car to the end of my post which should hopefully clarify things for you.
Soldato
And getting choked full of carbon isn't one.
I've dealt with them on past cars, they fail in much more traditional and noticeable ways. Mine started to clatter, but otherwise function. On VANOS I believe it's the transistor triggering the oil valve that fails.
Having just dropped it in, he says it needs a EC nox catalytic regeneration, thus meaning the same thing as the diesel, told him that I had had it out on a good run and its still doing it. He said they can regenerate it for me but it may not be covered under warranty, who knows, fed up :-/ See what they say around 3ish.
I have no idea what he is on about unless BMW petrol cars have some fancy regen like diesels but its not something I have heard off....????
TBH it sounds like he is trying to rip you off or just has no idea what is wrong with your car.
Soldato
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[TW]Fox;18202100 said:
[Note: BIG gap between the quote and this post - haven't read the rest of the thread, yet!]
Surely the point of BMW FSH is that the owner cared and it's gone to people have done the required work properly.
If the latter hasn't happened what IS the point of caring about FSH?
Owner that cares + Competent BMW Mechanics = Worthwhile FSH = Increased Car Value
Owner that cares + Incompetent BMW Mechanics = Not worthwhile FSH = Increased Car Value
Owner that doesn't care but pays for FSH anyway (rags it) + Competent BMW Mechanics = Worthwhile FSH = Increased Car Value
Owner that doesn't care (rags it) + Incompetent BMW Mechanics = No FSH = Decreased Car Value
Something doesn't add up there... can you spot it?
Only one of those is worth the FSH badge it has...
I technically don't have FSH, but I know ALL the work has been done by a competent mechanic, does that automatically mean that the car is worth less by your standards?
There is absolutely no substitute to driving and poking around a car your going to be buying. Personally FSH does not bother me in the slightest, you can tell quite easily by the exterior condition of cars how the owner cared for them anyway.
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Permabanned
Fox is one of those people with the enviable trait of self restraint, so his way of buying cars ie, perfect history, money no object previous owner etc works for him.
Sadly not everyone has the time money or inclination for car buying, by that i mean the money to scour the country looking for that elusive car, so those people need to stack the law of averages in their favour and what Fox is saying is right a full main dealer history is a step in the right direction.
I forget my point now Oh yea i just dont agree with him that it makes that much difference anymore in terms of value, or quality of car.
Sadly not everyone has the time money or inclination for car buying, by that i mean the money to scour the country looking for that elusive car, so those people need to stack the law of averages in their favour and what Fox is saying is right a full main dealer history is a step in the right direction.
I forget my point now
Oh yea i just dont agree with him that it makes that much difference anymore in terms of value, or quality of car.A FSH from an indy BMW specialist is surely better than main dealer FSH though
Permabanned
Well that depends dosent it, on the dealer or specialist.
What it dosent do is show a money no object attitude to maintaining a car, which is what Fox is banging on about.
So to a lot of people no, a specialist history is not as good as a main dealer one.
But i think that attitude is changing, because more people are these days aware that main dealers are **** takers and that good or better alternatives are available, thats where me and Fox differ in opinion.
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Permabanned
Soldato
Oh, I wonder if he is talking about the current trend of injecting Urea or Ammonia into the exhaust system in order to partially neutralise NOx gas? If so, I was under the impression than rather than "regenerate" the reservoir of the chemical needed occasionally topping up.
I seem to recall it was a way manufacturers like Audi managed to get their engines to "Euro 6" specification, though it's all a bit hazy.
Some stuff about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_catalytic_reduction
I wonder if that is what he's talking about. Either way, he has been quite specific so i'm more tempted to believe him, though I fail to understand how this sort of catalytic reduction system can reduce the power output of the engine, though I guess it's hard to tell when ECU programmers will decide to effect a cars power based on sensor readings...
From wiki.. I have never heard of that system in a car, I was hoping someone with a similar BMW could shed light but it has lost me what they are on about...
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Soldato
Missed that bit, and yeah you're right ,the article I read about Audi's was specifically referring to their Diesel engines and getting them up to the very strict new Euro specification without having to reduce their capacity too much.
So.. er... I'm as stumped as I was when I thought he was referring to a DPF
To the OP, I know you just want the car to work, but if you do manage to find out specifically what they claim it was, I'd be really interested to hear, bugging me now!
After a bit more research (aka Googling) seems BMW's use of SCR is what they refer to as "AdBlue" technology and seems to be solely for their diesels and a very new thing (lots of owners complaining they are running out and only BMW can re-fill it etc.), no mention of petrol engines though.
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