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Arek the sexy lady being disingenuous with the facts? I don't believe it
Boeing 777 shot down
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Well BND which is German intelligence, have said in their report that rebels have captured BUK system from Ukrainian forces.
I have mentioned this above with a link to spiegel but you can find direct report in German if you google around I`d imagine so.
The IL-76 shot down on 14 June 2014 was coming in to land at Lugansk thus making it an easy target for an Igla. The An-26 shot down on 14 July 2014 was cruising at 21,325ft meaning it was either shot down by a Buk or a Russian fighter jet, as Iglas cannot target planes at that altitude.
I'm not sure what your point is? That you never actually stated it was flying at 45,000 feet? Correct, but you pointlessly mentioned it's maximum altitude. By stating it's maximum you are misleading people in to believing it might have been hit at that altitude, rather than posting the evidence that shows it wasn't even close to that altitude, it's disingenuous.
Source?
The rest of the paragraph you partially quoted reads: "because it was in June that the rebels captured Ukrainian Buks.", so there's your answer.
Unless you think the Ukrainian government could have some of their Buks captured by the rebels, complain about it and still be oblivious to it? That's kinda beyond plausible deniability
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...laysia-Airlines-flight-on-Russian-border.html
http://tass.ru/en/world/738262
Article dated June 29, 2014, 19:30 UTC+3.
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The rest of the paragraph you partially quoted reads: "because it was in June that the rebels captured Ukrainian Buks.", so there's your answer.
Unless you think the Ukrainian government could have some of their Buks captured by the rebels, complain about it and still be oblivious to it? That's kinda beyond plausible deniability
Theres also proof that the russians sent them on a convoy to ukraine, including the one that was seen in the area of the shooting, and then removed it afterwards, but you keep ignoring that.
Firstly, assumptions and conjecture are not "proof", just because Buks were seen moving towards Ukraine during a military exercise doesn't mean they must have crossed into Ukraine. And just because a Buk was pictured in the east with a missing missile doesn't prove it was the one that shot down MH-17, it could just have likely been the one that shot down the AN-26 three days earlier (NB: I'm not saying the rebels didn't shoot it down or that Russia didn't help them cover it up, that's exactly what I think happened, I'm just separating facts from assumptions).
Secondly, i'm not, ignoring it, it's just not relevant to the subject currently being discussed which is if Ukraine knew in advance that flights over the warzone were in danger of being shot down.
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Well shall we just stop assuming everything else then? Especially as there was photographic evidence.
Theorizing and forming hypotheses is fine as long as you don't interchange them with the facts. I.E we know for a fact that Buks were seen moving towards Ukraine, we don't know if any crossed over. We know for a fact that one was seen moving from Ukraine into Russia and that Russia helped the rebels dispose of it, we don't know if it was the one that brought down MH-17 or the An-26. We know for fact that the rebels captured Buks from Ukraine forces, we don't know what they did with them. We know for fact that Buks were used to shoot down two planes three days apart, we don't know who pushed the buttons (even though it's not hard to guess, but that's a guess).
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well the one on a lorry driving from russia towards ukraine must also have had the same serial number painted on it as the one that appeared in ukraine a few days later then.
Massive coincidence
Either way we'll never get the truth as Russia acts like a toddler when questioned on the world stage.
Even with cake on their hands, around their mouth and in their hair, they'll still cry and swear blind they didn't eat the cake.
Massive coincidence
Either way we'll never get the truth as Russia acts like a toddler when questioned on the world stage.
Even with cake on their hands, around their mouth and in their hair, they'll still cry and swear blind they didn't eat the cake.
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Well at least they dont create a big fat lie, refuse all evidence which suggests otherwise (UN actually visited the "sites of chemical weapons manufacture", and concluded that in those conditions even toilet paper couldn't be made days before invasion) You`d think this would have any influence... nop.
Dont get me wrong, what Russians are doing is not good by any means... But you cant just single them out as the "bad guys" Because from our stance and reputation in last 20 odd years of "Policing the world" we seem like a teacher who lashes out and shames a student who reads too slow... While we (the teacher) cant even read
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Well at least they dont create a big fat lie, refuse all evidence which suggests otherwise (UN actually visited the "sites of chemical weapons manufacture", and concluded that in those conditions even toilet paper couldn't be made days before invasion) You`d think this would have any influence... nop.
Dont get me wrong, what Russians are doing is not good by any means... But you cant just single them out as the "bad guys" Because from our stance and reputation in last 20 odd years of "Policing the world" we seem like a teacher who lashes out and shames a student who reads too slow... While we (the teacher) cant even read
Your first paragrapgh is just a direct contradiction of yourself, thats exactly what they do in every case.
Secondly, has it not already been recognised and agreed that it was the wrong decision?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...orbyn-apologise-iraq-war-behalf-labour-leader
Oh and the fact that we had an enquiry on it...
You think Russia is going to have any enquiries ever? Theyre still denying any involvement in ukraine and claiming syrian airstrikes are against ISIS when they are nowhere near.
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How long did it take for the "inquiry" to happen? a year or less than a month after the event? Cause I dont know if you know, but Syria/Ukraine conflict haven't been around for long
Can you find me anything of the sort from the US? Because lets be realist, UK is small potatoes in the whole Iraq conflict and even if UK stops following around US like a puppy on every action, its hardly going to have influence...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34538142
Excellent article on the ongoing Russian weirdness over the whole thing here. Very contradictory evidence provided by them
Excellent article on the ongoing Russian weirdness over the whole thing here. Very contradictory evidence provided by them
I note that the usual pro-Putin shills have given up trying to blame Ukrainian government troops for shooting down MH-17, they're still trying to pin the overall responsibility on Ukraine for not closing the airspace (which they should have) instead of the people who fired the missile.
Firstly, not being anti Russian doesn't make people pro-Russian, just unbiased.
Secondly, I don't believe anyone ever tried to blame the Ukrainian forces, just pointed out they were just as likely suspects as the Rebels or Russia based on what was known at the time (which was just that it had probably been shot down by a Buk that was in the area at the time).
Nope, if you actually read the thread and/or the Dutch report you would see that the investigators themselves pinned partial responsibility on Ukraine for not closing the airspace (which they should have) in addition to whomever fired the missile. That is what was being discussed.
Or did you actually read before posting and your're calling the Dutch investigators pro-Putin shills?
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As we presumed all along, it was the Russians: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44235402
What happens next?
What happens next?
absolutely nothing.
Almost certainly nothing. Russia is too powerful. The Russian government will deny it and put some story out through its propaganda outlets. Governments of other countries will say Russia did a bad thing. Maybe a few low-level diplomats will be sent home so some governments can be seen to be Doing Something. Things will carry on as normal...unless Russia goes so far so fast so openly that war can't be avoided. Which I think very unlikely - Putin is too skilled a politician for that.