Bonus/Pay-rise Tactics

TNGL · 14 Mar 2019 at 00:05

I will be finding out what my bonus for the year will be as well as how much my salary will increase by (if anything) this week or next.

The bonus won't be a huge % of my base (let's say 5% at most) because of my level of seniority and the industry I work in.

Nonetheless, I have always wondered if there is anything to lose by always appearing to be discontented with any rise or bonus, even if you are pleased with it?

The logic being if you appear happy, they might assume you were expecting less and will factor this in the following year. If you appear unhappy (and if they want to retain you), they will factor this (your discontentment) in and give you a better rise/bonus the following year. Hence, as long as you are not bad at your job, you will always stand to gain.

Or is this completely wrong and you should always appear grateful?

dowie · 14 Mar 2019 at 02:13

Personally (within reason*) I'd just be honest, you're already employed there, presumably it is your direct manager who has the meeting with you, you already know him/her and hopefully already have a good working relationship with them so I'd just be honest about it - if you're disappointed in the amount then tell them, if you're happy then thank them.

I wouldn't start playing games where you just always act disappointed or just maintain some poker face at every bonus/pay rise meeting like some emotionless droid, that would just be weird and possibly come across as rather insulting if the manager has actually fought a bit behind the scenes to get you a decent bonus and/or you're getting the biggest slice of the cake and he's about to have meetings with other team members where they're getting significantly less.

It is probably better (IMHO) to bring up any existing disappointment with pay etc.. in advance, while you might sometimes get things changed - bonuses "corrected" afterwards that can be harder. One rather bold approach a friend of mine does is to cherry pick various pay surveys and send them to his manager well in advance - not too subtle! But if you're genuinely underpaid they might well be aware and if you're otherwise getting reviews that state you're meeting requirements or exceeding them then you have reason to have a meeting to discuss pay and progress etc... ideally you put this forward as you being super keen and wanting to progress, take on more responsibility, increase your skill set/experience etc..too.

*obviously you don't need to get ridiculously angry if it is bad and start punching the table or indeed ridiculously happy and start uttering things like "oh this is too much, I'd have been happy with half of this" if it is very generous.

TNGL · 15 Mar 2019 at 00:07

dowie said:
Personally (within reason*) I'd just be honest, you're already employed there, presumably it is your direct manager who has the meeting with you, you already know him/her and hopefully already have a good working relationship with them so I'd just be honest about it - if you're disappointed in the amount then tell them, if you're happy then thank them.

I wouldn't start playing games where you just always act disappointed or just maintain some poker face at every bonus/pay rise meeting like some emotionless droid, that would just be weird and possibly come across as rather insulting if the manager has actually fought a bit behind the scenes to get you a decent bonus and/or you're getting the biggest slice of the cake and he's about to have meetings with other team members where they're getting significantly less.

It is probably better (IMHO) to bring up any existing disappointment with pay etc.. in advance, while you might sometimes get things changed - bonuses "corrected" afterwards that can be harder. One rather bold approach a friend of mine does is to cherry pick various pay surveys and send them to his manager well in advance - not too subtle! But if you're genuinely underpaid they might well be aware and if you're otherwise getting reviews that state you're meeting requirements or exceeding them then you have reason to have a meeting to discuss pay and progress etc... ideally you put this forward as you being super keen and wanting to progress, take on more responsibility, increase your skill set/experience etc..too.

*obviously you don't need to get ridiculously angry if it is bad and start punching the table or indeed ridiculously happy and start uttering things like "oh this is too much, I'd have been happy with half of this" if it is very generous.

This is the thing. My manager will hand me the envelope but he won't know what's in there. It's his manager that decides what I get; the problem is I have little direct exposure to my manager's manager (MM). I get the point on how it may come across as insulting if my manager has fought to get me a decent bonus, however, it seems as if he has little control over it himself. I would have to express my disdain directly to my MM because my manager seems quite powerless in this situation.

I have also heard through the grapevine that my manager has been known to not be too pushy in such discussions with my MM when it comes to his subordinates' comp.

I am going to play it by ear for now because I haven't completely figured out the dynamic I am dealing with. Another complexity is I have found out they are recruiting for another person to join my team (due to a recent departure) that is a grade above me, which requires between 1-2 years experience (i.e. the same as me) and will be carrying out the same tasks as me. I will be quite insulted if there is no good change in pay this year, if they are willing to recruit somebody of the same skill level at a higher salary than my own.

If this does turn out to be the case, I will highlight how I feel. Just as your friend isn't too subtle, I have openly said how the job market for us is very active but only in a joking manner. Perhaps they know I can't leave too soon because I didn't leave my last place too long after joining and so they'll delay any sizeable pay increase until next year.

the_r_sole · 15 Mar 2019 at 09:37

it looks like they have set up a system to deliberately keep the decision makers apart from the workers - imo they are playing the game here.
Can you justify a big raise/bonus, i.e. is there something in your performance/output for the year which you can say, "well I did this and i expected x for a raise"
It looks like they are treating it as a game, so maybe you should too!

HangTime · 15 Mar 2019 at 21:46

dowie said:
It is probably better (IMHO) to bring up any existing disappointment with pay etc.. in advance, while you might sometimes get things changed - bonuses "corrected" afterwards that can be harder.

Agreed, the reaction you show when opening the envelope will potentially have been forgotten in 10 months time or whenever the next pay review is. Besides, in some organisations, outside of promotions managers have very little control over remuneration for existing employees unless something is massively (and I mean massively, not just a case of someone being underpaid by say 20%) out of whack. Even the manager's manager may have their hands tied and unable to do much under a standard annual pay review.

I think the worst case scenario is being underpaid in an organisation with a flat structure (limited opportunities for promotion) and a rigid pay review process. This means you are perpetually stuck on a low salary because no matter how well you perform your manager will struggle to reward you even if they want to.

dowie · 15 Mar 2019 at 23:16

TNGL said:
This is the thing. My manager will hand me the envelope but he won't know what's in there. It's his manager that decides what I get; the problem is I have little direct exposure to my manager's manager (MM). I get the point on how it may come across as insulting if my manager has fought to get me a decent bonus, however, it seems as if he has little control over it himself. I would have to express my disdain directly to my MM because my manager seems quite powerless in this situation.

Eh? I'm confused now - your OP was about conveying emotion etc.. now you tell us that actually the guy you'd be acting disappointed in front of doesn't matter much anyway. (or at least you think he doesn't, do consider that it is quite convenient for managers to pretend that pay/bonuses are decided from above even when they have significant influence or complete discretion over them)

I have also heard through the grapevine that my manager has been known to not be too pushy in such discussions with my MM when it comes to his subordinates' comp.

I am going to play it by ear for now because I haven't completely figured out the dynamic I am dealing with. Another complexity is I have found out they are recruiting for another person to join my team (due to a recent departure) that is a grade above me, which requires between 1-2 years experience (i.e. the same as me) and will be carrying out the same tasks as me. I will be quite insulted if there is no good change in pay this year, if they are willing to recruit somebody of the same skill level at a higher salary than my own.

If this does turn out to be the case, I will highlight how I feel. Just as your friend isn't too subtle, I have openly said how the job market for us is very active but only in a joking manner. Perhaps they know I can't leave too soon because I didn't leave my last place too long after joining and so they'll delay any sizeable pay increase until next year.

As with the acting disappointed thing I'd just be up front with them, I wouldn't go about making out that you're a fight risk necessarily but rather if you want a promotion to the next grade then no harm in asking for it, especially if you've got the relevant experience and it is a completely plausible thing for you to get. No one is going to say "OMG TNLG has ambition and wants to succeed, that's such a bad thing" send an e-mail to arrange a meeting with your manager, why not ask them about the new position and ask if you can either apply for the position yourself or if you too can move up to the next level/pay grade, what do you need to do, are there additional responsibilities you can take on etc..etc.. It is then up to them to give you a reason etc.. if they don't move you up a grade and you end up working with some new person doing the same job albeit he/she is getting more pay then worth brining up again and/or just moving jobs. You don't need to drop hints or threaten to leave if it comes down to it then just do it, if you want something then push for it, if you don't get it there then try elsewhere.

mattx2 · 15 Mar 2019 at 23:34

After every payrise/bonus I always keep a neutral face thank them and ask what do I have to do to get a bigger number next year, seems to have worked well so far

TNGL · 16 Mar 2019 at 16:25

dowie said:
Eh? I'm confused now - your OP was about conveying emotion etc.. now you tell us that actually the guy you'd be acting disappointed in front of doesn't matter much anyway. (or at least you think he doesn't, do consider that it is quite convenient for managers to pretend that pay/bonuses are decided from above even when they have significant influence or complete discretion over them)

As with the acting disappointed thing I'd just be up front with them, I wouldn't go about making out that you're a fight risk necessarily but rather if you want a promotion to the next grade then no harm in asking for it, especially if you've got the relevant experience and it is a completely plausible thing for you to get. No one is going to say "OMG TNLG has ambition and wants to succeed, that's such a bad thing" send an e-mail to arrange a meeting with your manager, why not ask them about the new position and ask if you can either apply for the position yourself or if you too can move up to the next level/pay grade, what do you need to do, are there additional responsibilities you can take on etc..etc.. It is then up to them to give you a reason etc.. if they don't move you up a grade and you end up working with some new person doing the same job albeit he/she is getting more pay then worth brining up again and/or just moving jobs. You don't need to drop hints or threaten to leave if it comes down to it then just do it, if you want something then push for it, if you don't get it there then try elsewhere.

The idea is the message will be passed on, given how little exposure I actually have with my MM. I'm going to play it by ear and see what happens next week before mentioning the opening to my manager. The flight joke is always made in jest and it's almost like an internal joke amongst a few of us, except, I'm not entirely joking... I doubt the others are too.

I'm going to explore all opportunities before looking externally.