Boot failure - what am I missing...

RicardoF1RST

RicardoF1RST

RicardoF1RST

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Just head scratching really - any ideas appreciated.

2nd hand motherboard & CPUs, new PSU (750W) and RAM (DDR4 3200 2x 16GB Crucial).

Motherboard is a Gigabyte Z370M D3H.

Tried booting with an i7-8086K
- CPU fan spins
- Board LED stripe flashes 8 times (about 10 seconds)
- LED stays on for a further 20 seconds, then reboots & repeats
- No video out (HDMI or DVI)
- No USB power (no caps lock LED)

Tried booting with an i5-8500
- CPU fan spins
- Board LED stripe flashes 5 times (about 6 seconds)
- LED stays on, no longer reboots
- No video out (HDMI or DVI)
- No USB power (no caps lock LED)
- Tried connecting a SATA HD, the drive wakes up but no other effect

Power connectors are connected correctly, including the 8pin 4x 12v to the motherboard.

The BIOS history on the Gigabyte website says F2 was the first version, but F5 is needed for the i5 and F7 for the i7. Do we think that I need to get a CPU compatible with the oldest BIOS to then upgrade it or do we think the PSU may be a problem or do we think the motherboard could be a dud?

I tried removing the RAM whilst testing the i7 and it did as above. The motherboard came without a battery, so I have stuck one in and also shorted the CMOS jumper for good measure. This should make the graphics auto detect and seeing how the graphics is within the CPU and I have tried both I can't see trying an external graphics card would help (I don't have one at the mo).

If we think I should assume old BIOS, I need to get an i3-8100 B0 stepping. Any idea how I can tell if an i3-8100 is the early B0 or later U0, as the U0 needs the same BIOS as the i5 I already have. Or do you think a PSU issue is more likely?

I am surprised the boot appears to have got slightly further with the i5 over the i7.

Any ideas?
 
The U0 stepping is the standard (launch) stepping for all 8th gen i5 and i7 CPUs. The i3-8100 is generally B0 because it uses an older 4 core die.

The i5-8500 was launched after the i5-8400 and i5-8600K, but realistically you'd need a pretty old BIOS for it to not recognise an i5-8500.

The i7-8086K was released about a year after the others, so a little more concern there, but it's still the same die (U0 stepping) as the i5-8500.

Is your RAM single or dual rank? An old 8th gen board might not recognise 16Gbit memory if you have single rank (even 9th gen boards can need updates).
 
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Crucial lists the 3200 16's as compatible with the board. Although, the i7 is the same with or without any RAM. I'll check their specs thx, although I would imagine if it was the RAM then both i7 and i5 would act the same, which they don't

Gigabyte's CPU list for the motherboard lists i3-8100 B0 (BIOS F2) and U0 (BIOS F5). Might be safer to get an i5-8400 or i7-8700 as they are both earliest BIOS compatible.

I am going to try a different PSU too, as it gets further with the i5 (65W) than the i7 (95W) although without anything else in there it must be a pretty ropey PSU, it was cheap, but not THAT cheap :D

I need to get a speaker onto the board too, to see if that beeps anything.

Thx for input.
 
The BIOS revisions of interest are:
F2 07-Sep-17 (i7 8700 etc)
F5 07-March-18 (i5 8500)
F7 10-July-18 (i7 8086K)
currently on F14...

I guess the board could have been used with an i7-8700 etc and never had its BIOS updated.
 
RicardoF1RST said:
Crucial lists the 3200 16's as compatible with the board. Although, the i7 is the same with or without any RAM. I'll check their specs thx, although I would imagine if it was the RAM then both i7 and i5 would act the same, which they don't

Gigabyte's CPU list for the motherboard lists i3-8100 B0 (BIOS F2) and U0 (BIOS F5). Might be safer to get an i5-8400 or i7-8700 as they are both earliest BIOS compatible.

I am going to try a different PSU too, as it gets further with the i5 (65W) than the i7 (95W) although without anything else in there it must be a pretty ropey PSU, it was cheap, but not THAT cheap :D
Click to expand...

The i3-8100 was released with the B0 stepping and later they used U0 (6 core dies) with 2 cores disabled, that's why it needs a later BIOS. The i5-8400 is a launch CPU on the U0 stepping, as you said.

Crucial doesn't usually specify if their ram is single or dual rank, or if the part is 8Gbit or 16Gbit, you can usually google the part code on the sticks to find out. It is unlikely that they're 16Gbit if older than a year or two.

What model number/name is the PSU?

I'm not sure if the i5-8500 would actually need the later BIOS, I know Intel are a pedantic arse nowadays with the ME blocking unverified CPUs, but it's effectively just a slightly higher clocked i5-8400 with the same die. Do you know who owned the board? You could ask them what they ran in it.
 
According to Gigabytes support it needs a 2nd gen BIOS for the i5 and a 3rd gen BIOS for the i7. Do you think that with any of them it should boot but with limited config options, maybe multiplier limited? If it was the board, then I would have expected the same result from both i5 and i7 - but the i7 constantly reboots, the i5 sits there humming away until I power it off. I will try a new PSU.
 
Tetras said:
You could ask them what they ran in it.
Click to expand...

Board came from China, they are pretty rare nowadays - I needed the physical size. PSU I can't remember to be honest, and its not in its original case now (I've double checked everything). The PSU has been on the shelf for a while, don't think I have had it on at all - no harm in getting another one, I could do with a spare anyway.
 
RicardoF1RST said:
According to Gigabytes support it needs a 2nd gen BIOS for the i5 and a 3rd gen BIOS for the i7. Do you think that with any of them it should boot but with limited config options, maybe multiplier limited? If it was the board, then I would have expected the same result from both i5 and i7 - but the i7 constantly reboots, the i5 sits there humming away until I power it off. I will try a new PSU.
Click to expand...

I don't know myself, it used to be that you'd only get boot problems with new steppings/dies (and the bios update was only needed for full recognition), but Intel boards are a lot more locked down nowadays. I assume @teenwolf actually knows from experience :)
 
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Crucial lists the RAM as compatible (its brand new).

Crucial 16GB DDR4-3200 UDIMM​

  • CT16G4DFRA32A​

  • Configuration ID: CT18648103​

DDR4-3200 • CL=22 • NON-ECC • UDIMM • 288-pin • 1.2V • 2Rx8/1Rx8 • PC4-25600

Has to be the board (BIOS/dodgy) or PSU
So only options now are to find a CPU compatible with the F2 BIOS & try a different PSU.
 
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RicardoF1RST said:
Crucial lists the RAM as compatible (its brand new).

Crucial 16GB DDR4-3200 UDIMM​

  • CT16G4DFRA32A​

  • Configuration ID: CT18648103​

DDR4-3200 • CL=22 • NON-ECC • UDIMM • 288-pin • 1.2V • 2Rx8/1Rx8 • PC4-25600
Click to expand...

2Rx8 should be compatible with the launch bios (though JEDEC sticks of this speed didn't actually exist when 8th gen was released and Gigabyte say support was added with BIOS F13, but it will almost certainly be programmed to function at 2666 or below). 1Rx8 in a 16GB stick may not be, but since that's OEM memory you can see from the outside if it's single rank or dual rank (chips on both sides).
 
image.png
 
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RicardoF1RST said:
8 chips on one side.
Manual says:
  • Support for non-ECC Un-buffered DIMM 1Rx8/2Rx8/1Rx16 memory modules
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that's just the rank configuration, it doesn't say what capacity is supported for each of these and if you look at the QVL (which I assume was printed with the initial bios), I can't find any 1Rx8 16GB modules (they're all double sided 2Rx8) and the 1Rx16 are all 4GB, except for some GEIL 8GB modules, which I suspect is a typo because 1. they didn't exist in 2017 and 2. they list one as double sided and 1Rx16 in an 8GB capacity is 4 chips, single sided.

If this was one of the big sellers (that sold you the motherboard) I'd have thought they would update the BIOS to avoid problems like these happening (with different CPUs and new memory), but I don't know.

Cheapest way to test this if you don't have any spares, would be to buy a used 4GB or 8GB module in the 'old' configuration (8 or 16 memory chips, preferably 2133 or 2400), which would be around a tenner. New 8GB modules would not be advisable, because they're often 16Gbit with 4 memory chips. If this is the problem then they'll (the Crucial modules) most likely work fine after the bios is updated.

How old is the PSU, by the way? Most PSUs should boot the system fine anyway, but since 4th gen they have slightly different requirements. If it has an 8 pin and a PCI-E connector it should be fine though (because it can't be that old).
 
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PSU is about 18 months old, should be fine (has 8 pin) - especially as currently there are no drives or external GPU. We are on the same wave length re: the memory, I've already worked out a 4GB DDR4-2400 stick would be useful, I'm going to try and find one local tomorrow. Cheers. Motherboard is just the right size for the Mac Pro case its going in, price was OK too and its warrantied, but I have had it a while as been busy. Thanks for input.
 
Problem solved.

Stuck a 4GB DDR4-2400 in and booted fine. BIOS is F5, so recognised the i5 but not the i7. Hence with the 32GB of DDR4-3200 it failed the memory check and with the i7 it failed its CPU check - hence different error scenarios.

Updated the BIOS to latest (F14) and the i7-8086K works fine, but it still doesn’t like the 2x 16GB DIMMs - which is fortunate because they are the one thing I have brand new and will just return them.

Best bit is, I got the i5 and 4GB stick from my local CEX and they have just the graphics card I am looking for, so can swap the CPU and RAM against that.

Thanks all for chipping in. Shared head scratching really helps :)
 
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