Boss GP Series

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BOSS - Big Open Single Seaters

Just came across this - http://www.bossgp.com



Running a little championship at European circuits with slightly older F1 cars and other similar series/spec.

Going to keep an eye on the calender on there - could be a good (cheap) event to go to abroad next year.
 
Saw a naff old Prost, my favourite Jordan and a Tyrell that Ricardo Rosset ruined F1 with... (I like the classics)

Pretty cool if a bit random
 
The problem with these races is you have perhaps 2 or 3 decent drivers and the rest are journeymen who never get close to exploiting the things.
 
But the difference is they are not driving 700bhp cars that cost as much as a planet.

Which they paid for themselves...

Duke and I watched the classic F1 support racers at Silverstone on the Friday and were impressed with the speed some of them them were going considering it was chucking it down. Fast enough for plenty of spins and a couple of crashes.
 
But the difference is they are not driving 700bhp cars that cost as much as a planet.

I meant the drivers, but GP2 is getting ridiculously expensive (and close to 700bhp) these days. Besides, as Skeeter said those "journeymen" are paying out of their own pocket. In fact I'd argue that driving something like that tank of a Prost or the struggling-for-downforce Arrows is in some ways much more difficult than today's F1 cars.
 
You miss my point...

I am well aware they are funding their passion and good on them, I do the same but on a smaller scale so I am hardly critacisng them for that. As a spectator however, one who has seen them go like they should I find this type of racing a bit boring. I'd much rather go to Goodwood as the cars there are at least spectacular at low speeds. A modern single seater sounds nice and goes like stink on the straights, but not much spectacle outside of that if they are braking early and taking the bends at 85% in the main. These cars need to be driven on their toes to be spectacular, bit like modern Group C where I always leave thinking "that should have been better than it was". The reason? Because you have 3 or 4 boys giving it the beans and the rest are fodder. In the day you had 90% of the grid ripping their nuts off and THAT is what I remember.

:)
 
This series is likely to be much cheaper to attend than the events you're referencing. If you don't like it, fair enough - go watch rallying or whatever you like. No point sitting here complaining about it. :)
 
You miss my point...

I am well aware they are funding their passion and good on them, I do the same but on a smaller scale so I am hardly critacisng them for that. As a spectator however, one who has seen them go like they should I find this type of racing a bit boring. I'd much rather go to Goodwood as the cars there are at least spectacular at low speeds. A modern single seater sounds nice and goes like stink on the straights, but not much spectacle outside of that if they are braking early and taking the bends at 85% in the main. These cars need to be driven on their toes to be spectacular, bit like modern Group C where I always leave thinking "that should have been better than it was". The reason? Because you have 3 or 4 boys giving it the beans and the rest are fodder. In the day you had 90% of the grid ripping their nuts off and THAT is what I remember.

:)

I agree with the sentiment on the BOSS series. The grids are regularly very thin and the performance differences between the cars/drivers are often very large. Last time I saw a BOSS race, much as Housey suggests it was an anti climax where apart from one or two cars at the front the rest weren't being driven anywhere close to the limit. Modern F1 cars aren't particularly spectacular to watch at the best of times either (even with the best drivers in the world in them!)
There was a period in the 90s where BOSS was a bit more interesting. There were a number of F1 cars (Jordan, Footwork/Arrows etc) and a whole load of F3000 cars that actually were very comparable in pace if driven well. It was a much more competetive series back then. Those days are gone now as the later cars are so mind blowingly expensive to run that only one or two ever make the grid.

The best F1 machinery to watch IMO was always the 3 litre era cars (1966 - 1984). In the early 00s the historic grids were huge (40+ cars at Silverstone supporting the GP in 2001 for example) and several of the drivers were capable of pushing the cars past the point where they were constantly sliding - which was always spectacular to watch. Of course there were also plenty of 'Gentleman' drivers at the other end of the field - but I found they added to the entertainment with plenty of mistakes spins and passes going on. The grids aren't quite as big since the recession, but these are still impressive cars to watch racing.

As for the Group C ... A big grid of 30+ Group C cars is a sight to behold (and to hear) no matter who is driving them. Much like the 3 litre F1 series - there are some Gentlemen drivers who make up the grid and are well off the pace, however it's a little unfair to say there are only 3-4 boys giving it the beans. I'd say it's more like 10+ at the bigger events.
Quite a few of the drivers are pros (in GTs or single seaters), Historic specialists or drivers who raced Group C in period and are still racing them now. Whenever one of the guys who raced the cars at the sharp end in period turn up for a race there is rarely much difference in pace between them and the regular front runners which I think proves that a good proportion of the cars on the grid are being driven 'properly'.

Yes the original Group C era was particularly spectacular (I followed my father racing at many of the European rounds through the 80s) I think you are comparing the two with rose tinted glasses. Yes it was undoubtably something special watching the handful of works cars with some of the top drivers of the day racing the cars ... but equally they were endurance races so they were often nursing the car/running at far below full power because of the fuel limit .. .where the historics are effectively running 40minute sprints at full boost (900bhp+ in the Mercs and Nissans!). Back in the 80s more than half of the grid were made up of weathly gentleman drivers too! Of course it's never goign to be quite the same - but I think you are being quite hard on the modern series - I've watched a lot of the races over the last 10 years and many of them have been exciting races to watch.

Regardless of the Then vs Now argument - I think the Historic F1 and Group C series are some of the very best racing you can watch these days. I personally find watching most of the modern series (F2, Gts etc extremely dull as the cars are on rails and the races soon get strung out).
Any of the big historic/classic events such as the Silverstone classic are well worth going along to both to see some spectacular machinery up close but also for some very entertaining racing with huge grids of cars.
 
I never missed a Group C event in the UK, I also went to many Group 4/5/6 events and DRM events in the late 70's/80's and never missed a round of the ETCC either in the UK in the late 70's and through into the late 80's. There is no doubt an element of rose tinted, being there living and breathing it when it happened is always better than trying to relive it year later. I hate the Silverstone event, compared to the Goodwood Revival and though it has a broad spectrum of cars, it still doesn't have anywhere near the level of competition or spectacle, though Silverstone is a BIG part of the reason for this.

I've only seen a couple of modern Group C recreations and simply they are not the same, they both left me cold and though it's great so see the cars again, some pedalled well I've been spoilt, it will never be as good for it lacks period. Mate of mine tests many of the Group C cars and when he is out is as quick as anyone out there even in his 60's (Mike Wilds) and he also agrees with me that Group C was simply the greatest series ever and he was a C2 champion.

I do find the historic F1 however is lacking. Ive seen many of them and though some of the boys go well it still lacks something, which I suspect is period. I remember going to the GP in 79 at Silversotne for the first time. Sitting in the stand on Saturday and listening to the zzzzzzz and then wam wam wam noise of a Cossy warming up was something childhood's are made of, as is seeing the greats of the day batter them around the circuit. If you never experienced that you simply can't understand my standpoint, but also I cant understand peoples passion because I've seen it when it WAS better.

Tis all subjective and NONE of it's boring or unspectacular, for me however it's not the same with the really fast stuff.
 
This series is likely to be much cheaper to attend than the events you're referencing. If you don't like it, fair enough - go watch rallying or whatever you like. No point sitting here complaining about it. :)

Im not complaining, I'm discussing my opinion. I rarely go to events these days for the reason I state.
 
Standing in the forest at Spa and hearing 24 18,000RPM F1 cars scream through the trees is something that will stay with me forever.

Obviously in 20 years time when I see one at a demo run somewhere I am going to think its slow and not a patch on the original. But then why should I expect it to? Your comparing cars at the front of technology being raced to within an inch of their lives by professional racing drivers, to a few hobbists or private owners giving their pride and joy a run.

You shouldn't be dismissing them because they aren't raging them to the limit. You should be thankful that they are demonstraiting them on track at all, and not just locking them away in a private garage where nobody gets to see or hear them.

Complaining that classic cars being raced today isn't the same as when they were the modern cars of the time is a bit... unrealistic?
 
Standing in the forest at Spa and hearing 24 18,000RPM F1 cars scream through the trees is something that will stay with me forever.

Obviously in 20 years time when I see one at a demo run somewhere I am going to think its slow and not a patch on the original. But then why should I expect it to? Your comparing cars at the front of technology being raced to within an inch of their lives by professional racing drivers, to a few hobbists or private owners giving their pride and joy a run.

You shouldn't be dismissing them because they aren't raging them to the limit. You should be thankful that they are demonstraiting them on track at all, and not just locking them away in a private garage where nobody gets to see or hear them.

Complaining that classic cars being raced today isn't the same as when they were the modern cars of the time is a bit... unrealistic?

I've said to me they don't appeal for reasons I've stated. I go to historic events more than any other event and I have never said others shouldn't go or shouldn't enjoy them, but seems [jack nickleson] YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH[/jack nickleson] ;)

I also haven't said that all historic racing is no good, or any....
 
Your saying they don't appeal because they are only being driven at 8/10ths.

I'm saying you should be lucky they are driven at all, and shouldn't be expecting them to be pushed to 10/10ths.
 
Your saying they don't appeal because they are only being driven at 8/10ths.

Yup, because unlike most other formulas in an F1 car that is more obvious than a D type/250F at 80% for example.

I'm saying you should be lucky they are driven at all, and shouldn't be expecting them to be pushed to 10/10ths.

I too am pleased they are being driven, many historic cars are driven at 10/10ths because they are raced by people who can. Most of these BOSS cars are not and whilst you can all go an soak up the noise and still see them to me it's a not compelling.

I'd rather see a car that is exciting to watch at 80% than one that isn't, that is my point. As I keep saying, it's a subjective.
 
Historic rallying i can understand or group B rallycross etc. Have to say im with Housey on this one dont find the historic F1 cars that exciting.
 
I never missed a Group C event in the UK, I also went to many Group 4/5/6 events and DRM events in the late 70's/80's and never missed a round of the ETCC either in the UK in the late 70's and through into the late 80's. There is no doubt an element of rose tinted, being there living and breathing it when it happened is always better than trying to relive it year later. I hate the Silverstone event, compared to the Goodwood Revival and though it has a broad spectrum of cars, it still doesn't have anywhere near the level of competition or spectacle, though Silverstone is a BIG part of the reason for this.

I've only seen a couple of modern Group C recreations and simply they are not the same, they both left me cold and though it's great so see the cars again, some pedalled well I've been spoilt, it will never be as good for it lacks period. Mate of mine tests many of the Group C cars and when he is out is as quick as anyone out there even in his 60's (Mike Wilds) and he also agrees with me that Group C was simply the greatest series ever and he was a C2 champion.

I do find the historic F1 however is lacking. Ive seen many of them and though some of the boys go well it still lacks something, which I suspect is period. I remember going to the GP in 79 at Silversotne for the first time. Sitting in the stand on Saturday and listening to the zzzzzzz and then wam wam wam noise of a Cossy warming up was something childhood's are made of, as is seeing the greats of the day batter them around the circuit. If you never experienced that you simply can't understand my standpoint, but also I cant understand peoples passion because I've seen it when it WAS better.

Tis all subjective and NONE of it's boring or unspectacular, for me however it's not the same with the really fast stuff.

I spent my childhood following my father around Europe while he was racing Group C in the 80s. In the early 90s he raced BOSS and British F2, TGP F1 in the late 90s and for the last 10 years he has raced in the Group C revival series. As you can imagine I've been to an awful lot of these races :)

Incidentally Mike Wilds and my father were direct competition in the 80s, both racing in the C2 class. He finished as high as 11th overall and 2nd in class at Le mans in what was technically a very uncompetitive and low budget car compared to many of the C2 rivals. Despite also being in his mid 60s he still manages to race his Spice very competitively!

Although I agree nothing can ever quite compare to being there back in the day watching the likes of Ickx, Bellof, Bell etc working their magic, but I think you are being extremely tough on the modern revival series. Unless you have a time machine we'll never be able to truly relive those past glorious races, but many of the modern ones I have been to have been spectacular racing in their own right.

Especially for those who weren't there in the 80s - I'd wholeheartedly recommend the big historic events to anyone who loves watching racing and is passionate about cars. I think it offers some of the very best racing you can see these days. Personally I'd even turn down tickets for the GP in preference for attending some of them instead! The cars are fantastic, many of the drivers are very talented (some being pros accepting free drives) and much of the racing is extremely hard and competitive. To suggest that the drivers at the sharp end of the Group C and Historic F1 are racing at 8/10ths or crusising around simply isn't true - some of the onboard videos on youtube prove that!

At the moment some of the Group C and historic F1 grids understandably aren't quite as big as they were before the recession, so if anyone decides to give one of these events a go I'd stick with one of the bigger events that still attract decent grids (Spa or Silverstone Classic and perhaps Brands too just because the cars are always spectacular to watch around there.)

Videos never even begin to capture the amazing sounds, speed and energy that these cars produce but here's a couple of videos anyway :)

This includes onboard from a C11 Sauber Mercedes

7m40 in for some onboard from a very late spec 962 Porsche from the start of one of the races:
 
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