Bots and AI

wannabedamned

wannabedamned

wannabedamned

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Do you ever think we'll get Bots in games that react like real people?

I would love it, I hate playing Unreal and quake, and fighting against cannon fodder.

I want to play against bots that can use cover systems and strategy.

I know AI can only go so far, But surely realistic tactics in game can't be overly hard to impliment.

Has a game out there already got good bots/ AI and i've just missed it?


I guess this thread could be expanded to include general in game enemies too.
 
To be honest I think the algorithms are very very nearly in place for good AI and over the next few years we'll be seeing a lot more advancements in Bots and AI in the games we play.

It was only the other day I saw some incredible, really really incredible AI techniques for of all things Blender3d, all wrote in Python and when I looked at the code myself it was incredible just how much effort had gone into making things as realistic as possible.

But that's the downside isn't it. Take the average person on here, give them a SA80 and drop them in a field with terrorists and they'd be dead within seconds.

How far do you want the AI to go before people are complaining and saying "It's too hard"
 
Yeah, The too difficult thing will become annoying.

I feel right now, The only reason I die on harder difficulties is because you are overwhelmed and out gunned. Rather than strategically out played.

I would happily have normal difficulty use a slightly dumbed down version of the AI, and the harder difficulties be a lot smarter.

That way, people can't complain hard difficulty is hard, because simply put...Well Duh!
 
Yeah I agree, the overwhelmed and out gunned is a lot more apparent than strategy these days.

You can be the best COD4 SP player in the world, but take on a bunch of human players who play as a team and the randomness of what, when and where to expect stuff is just impossible to measure.

But the simple stuff like an enemy diving out of the way, entering a warehouse and them turn the lights out and through a flashbang to confuse you, and a whole host of other stuff I'm sure is not far ahead. Really doesn't need a lot of processing power, just needs someone to sit down and think of a lot of conditions:

Is player near?
Is player firing?
Are players shots near me?
Is there cover near by?
Is cover strong enough to stop player bullets?
Is cover accessible quickly?
Do I give back fire then run to cover?
Is there an escape route from cover to somewhere else?
Is Player able to pin me down?
Has player got more magazines?

So many many choices, but stuff which the game can probably calculate far far quicker than a human.
 
I think the problem in a way is through the limitations of programming, and trying to make the AI not "cheat". The problem with all programming really is that you can't just tell the computer/console to do things, and let it go, you usually have to define what those things actually are, and how they work together, before it can even do anything. Much like writing collision detection - you computer has absolutely no idea that anything you draw on screen is solid until you tell it, and then you actually have to sit down and define what "solid" means.

It's much the same with AI. It's all well and good saying "Use cover", but how does the bot actually know what is cover and what isn't? How does it determine the strength of said cover? These are the kind of things we take for granted, because we use our eyes, our knowledge and experience of the world, and fast computations in our head, to work out the answer. If an in-game AI were a real person, it would be near-blind, with a tiny short-term memory, and almost no memory of anything. And it's trying to make something like that understand what to do, quickly, that's the problem.

That said, good AI is perfectly possible, it just takes work. I think a truly top notch AI would have to have a game engine built from the ground up for it, so that it doesn't have to work too much stuff out for itself, and can rely instead on what is made available.
 
we are way way off from having good ai imo. until AI can learn and adapt to us then it will never be as good, because that is what makes humans so good and interesting. how often is it that when you set the game harder that it just stacks the odds up against you rather than making it smarter? they get more health, more armour, more ammo, you get less health etc. its making it unfair, and in effect harder.

this makes sense in single player games and it does work, but in games where everyone is equal and have the same access to everything eg. multiplayer fps's such as quake and unreal, it will won't be the same until AI adapts. you really should be playing humans anyway and not bots in those games ;)
 
It would be interesting to see how a neural network based ai would do. Could start off with some basic knowledge of whether a person is visible, what weapon they have etc. and the teacher signal would be based on the amount of damage they took / gave. Would be able to adapt to the players as well then. It could develop an idea of what cover 'looks like' and what routes work well round each map. The danger is that you end up with bots that become too good, or start doing random things that don't make any sense based on freak situations.

Something that needs sorting out is aiming. It's not very realistic in ut for example, either they're stupidly bad or they're stupidly accurate. If they could build aiming in as something that's actually 'difficult' for an AI and as random as real human aiming it would be helpful.

And then you have things like objective based gameplay.. which ut3 bots are terrible at.

Don't think we'll be seeing live neural networks in games any time soon anyway since they're probably very unpredictable and need a lot of tweaking.
 
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I love talking about ingame AI and the possibilities :D

It has come along way hasnt it though, I mean i remember being so excited at the MGS soldiers AI, But now when I think back it was terrible lol, You walk into their cone and they see you. lol, You could actually stand just out side their cone and not be seen.

AI has come along way, I may just be being greedy with wanting to battle out with actual strategically programmed AI rather than just gimping the user and making the Bot/AI Godlike with extra health and increase damage.
 
Hello there :)

I love what the modders have done for stalker AI ;). Its a lot more realistic, shoot from behind walls and from inside buildings, they pop out and in taking pot shots at you while they sneak around for some rear action :D

I am sure one of them got a grenade lodged up my ass the other night they are such a good shot :p

Try the oblivion lost mod and play it on master :cool:

I think its not far away from feeling like your playing real people :)
 
Even if bots become as good as humans (actually, in Soul Calibur IV they are) I will not get same satisfaction as hurting a real person :)
 
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