Bought new rig, frequent stutters/frame spiking? i5 9600k, Z390 AORUS PRO & 16 GB DDR4

jonny321321 · 4 Dec 2018 at 17:30

Hi all,

I guess I'm just a little ticked off, given the amount of time and effort I've put into evaluating the problem.

Long story short, frame spiking issues games which utilise CPU/RAM such as Black Ops 4, Fortnite, CS GO & Overwatch.

https://imgur.com/rJULiKv & https://imgur.com/g0mfEGT (afterburner version makes no difference, Rivatuner OSD not even enabled)

Here is the total list of things I've tried, so if you're one to suggest 'remove bloatware', would be nice if you could check this list:

https://pastebin.com/hhw2NPy6

My biggest fear is that when I receive a new mobo (I'm RMAing it) the issue still occurs, in which case, what will I be able to do? I'm still within the 28 day fault period not 14 day return period though, but equally if it's a design flaw, how would this be dealt with? If I were to still receive frame spiking like that, it would be completely unfit for purpose.

Freddie1980 · 4 Dec 2018 at 21:06

What ram have got? Might be worth looking at the timings on your kit, if its to loose it may caused delays and frame time lags.

jonny321321 · 4 Dec 2018 at 21:26

Freddie1980 said:
What ram have got? Might be worth looking at the timings on your kit, if its to loose it may caused delays and frame time lags.

I have 2 sets now as a bought a second in order to eliminate it as a cause (and see how it overclocked):

Corsair Vengeance LED 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz C15 CMU16GX4M2C3000C15
Patriot Viper 4 3200Mhz 2 x 8 GB - PV416G320C6K

I've had both RAM sets overclocked, at stock XMP settings, or at stock non-XMP settings, and get the issue. I can only see it being a faulty mobo

Freddie1980 · 4 Dec 2018 at 21:42

jonny321321 said:
I have 2 sets now as a bought a second in order to eliminate it as a cause (and see how it overclocked):

Corsair Vengeance LED 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz C15 CMU16GX4M2C3000C15
Patriot Viper 4 3200Mhz 2 x 8 GB - PV416G320C6K

I've had both RAM sets overclocked, at stock XMP settings, or at stock non-XMP settings, and get the issue. I can only see it being a faulty mobo

Have run these games with the MSI Afterburner overlay? It might be worth to see if your CPU or video card is clocking the core clock down.

jonny321321 · 4 Dec 2018 at 21:46

Freddie1980 said:
Have run these games with the MSI Afterburner overlay? It might be worth to see if your CPU or video card is clocking the core clock down.

I experience the stutters irrespective of Afterburner being enabled. The GPU core clock remains unwavering, GPU usage did not appear to change at a spike. I even reverted to stock GPU bios, tried different PCI-E slot and different GPU (having used DDU to clean install drivers). Furthermore, in a 3Dmark graphics test (e.g. Firestrike non-physics) frametimes looked normal but anything which utilises RAM/CPU I experience the issue. CPU temperature is fine and CPU clock remains constant.

youdsy · 5 Dec 2018 at 00:52

whats your GPU usage and Vram usage like? can you post a pic of the GPU usage trend as well as frametime?

seems like the only thing you haven't tried is a different GPU. have you tried lowering resolution and settings to lowest to see if the problem is GPU related.

try capping FPS to 60 and see if spikes occur then. (takes load of CPU & ram)

Doug2507 · 5 Dec 2018 at 01:28

Tried a different hard drive?

Space Monkey · 5 Dec 2018 at 14:03

Does this happen with just one set of memory installed, so no mixing?

hominid · 5 Dec 2018 at 18:50

It may be the infamous NVidia 970 3.5+.5GB VRAM cards, where the cards do have a total of 4GB it is split into something like 3.5GB @256Bit +0.5GB @64Bit - as an example. So you have 3.5GB of normal bandwidth VRAM and then the extra 0.5GB of restricted bandwidth VRAM

I would check your VRAM usage to see if it is over 3.5GB as not being totally uniform you can get oddities like this as you approach, or go over, that 3.5GB 'limit'.

Compare that to the frames stutters and see if you get any sort of correlation.

youdsy · 5 Dec 2018 at 19:43

hominid said:
It may be the infamous NVidia 970 3.5+.5GB VRAM cards, where the cards do have a total of 4GB it is split into something like 3.5GB @256Bit +0.5GB @64Bit - as an example. So you have 3.5GB of normal bandwidth VRAM and then the extra 0.5GB of restricted bandwidth VRAM

I would check your VRAM usage to see if it is over 3.5GB as not being totally uniform you can get oddities like this as you approach, or go over, that 3.5GB 'limit'.

Compare that to the frames stutters and see if you get any sort of correlation.

yeah thats why i said to put everything on low and low res to alleviate this potential issue.

Distracted · 5 Dec 2018 at 19:54

Looking at your pastebin file it seems as if you have ruled out everything except the mobo.

I hope the replacement fixes the problems.

Gener_AL_UK · 6 Dec 2018 at 18:10

After looking at paste bin and the spikes / can you try setting HEPT to enabled (not auto) in bios and making sure its enabled in windows.
See if its fixed then if not disable bios and OS.

To disable HPET in Windows run the command... bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
To enable HPET as the only timer run the command... bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

jonny321321 · 7 Dec 2018 at 11:33

youdsy said:
whats your GPU usage and Vram usage like? can you post a pic of the GPU usage trend as well as frametime?

seems like the only thing you haven't tried is a different GPU. have you tried lowering resolution and settings to lowest to see if the problem is GPU related.

try capping FPS to 60 and see if spikes occur then. (takes load of CPU & ram)

I've tried a different GPU (GTX 770), I've also tried Integrated graphics and get the issue! VRAM usage doesn't break 1.5GB in BO4, I play at the lowest/medium settings for my games/diagnostic procedure

Doug2507 said:
Tried a different hard drive?

Yup! Unless it's an issue with BOTH my NVMe and SATA SSD (one being connected whilst the other is disconnected) which I find unlikely

Space Monkey said:
Does this happen with just one set of memory installed, so no mixing?

This occurs with 1 stick of memory, irrespective of DIMM slot. I've tried a different DDR4 kit, they are both single rank kits though.

hominid said:
It may be the infamous NVidia 970 3.5+.5GB VRAM cards, where the cards do have a total of 4GB it is split into something like 3.5GB @256Bit +0.5GB @64Bit - as an example. So you have 3.5GB of normal bandwidth VRAM and then the extra 0.5GB of restricted bandwidth VRAM

I would check your VRAM usage to see if it is over 3.5GB as not being totally uniform you can get oddities like this as you approach, or go over, that 3.5GB 'limit'.

Compare that to the frames stutters and see if you get any sort of correlation.

I initially thought that but I'm not exceeding VRAM the GTX 970 takes issue with, GPU usage doesn't waver. Furthermore, in purely graphical tests such as 3DMark Firestrike (graphical tests only) I don't appear to get the frame time problems. And occurs with other GPUs

youdsy said:
yeah thats why i said to put everything on low and low res to alleviate this potential issue.

I'm assuming that low res does exacerbate the issue, but will verify it to further solidify the CPU as the problem. I already run at lowest settings, but I will try dropping the resolution to as low as I can go.

Gener_AL_UK said:
After looking at paste bin and the spikes / can you try setting HEPT to enabled (not auto) in bios and making sure its enabled in windows.
See if its fixed then if not disable bios and OS.

To disable HPET in Windows run the command... bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

To enable HPET as the only timer run the command... bcdedit /set useplatformclock true

I will try that, on my previous board I couldn't disable/enable HPET, but now it's possible. I doubt it will change anything though.

Distracted said:
Looking at your pastebin file it seems as if you have ruled out everything except the mobo.

I hope the replacement fixes the problems.

I received a replacement motherboard yesterday, an Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX board and guess what! Same issue!!!!! I just don't know if the CPU is faulty or if it's inherent to the CPU.

GamersNexus and TomsHardware in their review of the i5 9600k seem to experience frame time anomalies more frequently than with other CPUs e.g.: https://www.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2018/cpus/9600k/far-cry-5-frametime-plot.png FROM https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3407-intel-i5-9600k-cpu-review-vs-2700-2600-8700k

TomsHardware: https://img.purch.com/r/711x457/aHR...wODAtQ1BVLVRlc3QtRFgxMi1DcmF6eS1QcmVzZXQucG5n FROM https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5-9600k-coffee-lake-cpu,5922-3.html

The i5 8600k seems to suffer from it too in the GamersNexus review, I wonder if anyone else with these 2 CPUs experiences the issue I do?

The way I'm experiencing the issues seems excessively consistent though,

DragonQ · 7 Dec 2018 at 12:09

I can't imagine the CPU being a bottleneck here, considering my ancient X5675 copes fine with those types of games, but then I do game at 1440p so maybe at 1080p it's becoming a bigger bottleneck? I can't access your images at work...does your GPU utilisation actually drop during the spiky periods?

The GamersNexus review does seem to indicate that for these types of CPU-bound games a 6c/6t CPU just doesn't really cut it. Maybe you'll have to swap to an i7-8700K or i7-9700K?

youdsy · 7 Dec 2018 at 12:10

jonny321321 said:
I've tried a different GPU (GTX 770), I've also tried Integrated graphics and get the issue! VRAM usage doesn't break 1.5GB in BO4, I play at the lowest/medium settings for my games/diagnostic procedure

Yup! Unless it's an issue with BOTH my NVMe and SATA SSD (one being connected whilst the other is disconnected) which I find unlikely

This occurs with 1 stick of memory, irrespective of DIMM slot. I've tried a different DDR4 kit, they are both single rank kits though.

I initially thought that but I'm not exceeding VRAM the GTX 970 takes issue with, GPU usage doesn't waver. Furthermore, in purely graphical tests such as 3DMark Firestrike (graphical tests only) I don't appear to get the frame time problems. And occurs with other GPUs

I'm assuming that low res does exacerbate the issue, but will verify it to further solidify the CPU as the problem. I already run at lowest settings, but I will try dropping the resolution to as low as I can go.

I will try that, on my previous board I couldn't disable/enable HPET, but now it's possible. I doubt it will change anything though.

I received a replacement motherboard yesterday, an Asrock Z390 Phantom Gaming ITX board and guess what! Same issue!!!!! I just don't know if the CPU is faulty or if it's inherent to the CPU.

GamersNexus and TomsHardware in their review of the i5 9600k seem to experience frame time anomalies more frequently than with other CPUs e.g.: https://www.gamersnexus.net/images/media/2018/cpus/9600k/far-cry-5-frametime-plot.png FROM https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3407-intel-i5-9600k-cpu-review-vs-2700-2600-8700k

TomsHardware: https://img.purch.com/r/711x457/aHR...wODAtQ1BVLVRlc3QtRFgxMi1DcmF6eS1QcmVzZXQucG5n FROM https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i5-9600k-coffee-lake-cpu,5922-3.html

The i5 8600k seems to suffer from it too in the GamersNexus review, I wonder if anyone else with these 2 CPUs experiences the issue I do?

The way I'm experiencing the issues seems excessively consistent though,

try under-clocking the CPU to 3ghz

power management to high performance?

bios energy saving features disabled?

jonny321321 · 7 Dec 2018 at 14:17

DragonQ said:
I can't imagine the CPU being a bottleneck here, considering my ancient X5675 copes fine with those types of games, but then I do game at 1440p so maybe at 1080p it's becoming a bigger bottleneck? I can't access your images at work...does your GPU utilisation actually drop during the spiky periods?

The GamersNexus review does seem to indicate that for these types of CPU-bound games a 6c/6t CPU just doesn't really cut it. Maybe you'll have to swap to an i7-8700K or i7-9700K?

Possibly a faulty IMC or something. Fortnite is known for being easy to run on any CPU, adding more than 4 cores doesn't do anything for it. And I still get the same consistent spikes in much the same way I do in Black Ops 4 (a game that loves threads) - it's pretty much the exact same time between each spike. Having looked at my graph, GPU usage does not alter at all when I experience a spike.

Framerate doesn't change either during these spikes.

I will try underclocking the CPU to 3ghz.

DragonQ · 7 Dec 2018 at 14:44

Have you checked CPU usage, clocks and thermals during the spikes?

jonny321321 · 7 Dec 2018 at 14:50

The spikes just get worse when I downclock it. https://imgur.com/YNfkgBI

Core clock remains consistent no matter what it's clocked at

CPU usage perhaps suffers a 5% dip when a spike occurs.

Thermals are perfectly fine (45c under BO4 load @ 3ghz, more like 55c at stock)

Smoogels · 7 Dec 2018 at 15:49

Is it possible for a recording of the stutter? Does the screen freeze for a spilt second, does the audio skip, are some games affected more than others, does it occur if you stand still in game and is there anything which effects the frequency and intensity of it? Also, do the stutters occur at any particular point (e.g loading asset or key input), can you reproduce it at certain points in a game scene? If you reboot the PC is it improved or the same?

Have you tried disconnecting all peripherals (minus monitor of course) to see if it helps?

Whilst the reviews you linked have a frametime anomaly they are less frequent and possibly over longer runs. The last afterburner graph you linked for example is very abnormal, even for a 9600K. Interestingly it looks to spike in some kind of rhythm.

Having skimed through your pastebin I would say it is unlikely to be a hardware fault with the components (have they been stress tested?). Configuration issue possibly, but I don't think anything is faulty providing there is no other problems with the computer and because you have already ruled out many components. Did you have another build before this one? Was that fine?

I guess you have tried the usual 'fixes' like disable fullscreen optimisation, disable game mode, disable DVR, remove XBox app and so on. Have you checked for the standby memory issue which is sometimes the cause of stutter? (thread)

You could also try collecting a performance trace with Windows Performance Analyzer which helps diagnose software issues (Nvidia guide). The results are a bit confusing, though if you filter the graphs to when the stutters occur (often manifest as a gap in the DX frame chart) you can see if anything abnormal only happens at that time. To see the DX frame graph you usually have to disable fullscreen optimization on the games exe.

Finally I would try a different power outlet/extension lead. Whilst unlikely I have seen a stuttering problem before due to a faulty surge protector.

youdsy · 7 Dec 2018 at 16:13

try limiting framerate to 30 and 60 to see if it still stutters.

what background apps do you have running?