Brakes query

Matt82

Matt82

Matt82

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Joined
13 Mar 2004
Posts
16,649
Had to jump on the brakes big time yesterday (yes, the thing that is only meant to happen if youre a racing driver, boy racer, loonatic)

The car had been driven normally before hand so brakes were neither stone cold or baked. I got on the brakes hard (not two feet utter panic, but much harder than normal) and not as much happened as i hoped.

Whilst I decelerated slowly I wondered if tyres were locked up (no, car still steered etc they were not locked) but after a second or two i started to decelerate, started to feel the tyres lock and then ABS finished it all off for me.

Ive never been happy with the brakes on the car (Pagid items from ECP, ive moaned about them a lot)

Can a poor reaction like that be down to anything other than the pads?

Replacement pads are a mere £35

ATE Brake Pads (Front) Part No.: 101440705
£35.94
(Priced Per Axle)
 
Braided lines help?

ABS will generally kick in on the first stamp as there's no weight over the front yet, and when coming to 10mph or so as you don't need to brake as hard to slow down as quickly at that speed
 
Are the brakes normally sharp? What's the wear like on the pads? Is there a big lip on the discs? When was the last time the fluid was replaced?
 
Yes, sharp for normal day to day use but day to day you never really use more than 10%-20% effort on them

Pads went on absolutely ages ago, 3-4 years ago, about 50k miles ago if my memory is right and the pads have a lot of material left (otherwise id have changed them much sooner) when i last looked they only looked about 50% worn.

Lip on the disc is minimal (must be really light on the brakes)

Fluid is 2 years 5 months, ATE blue
 
well the fluids old, so change that and put on some decent OEM pads. Don't use blue just get Castrol SRF or something
 
Fluid needs changing, also pads are likely to be in a bad condition considering the amount of temperature changes they will have been through over 4 years. I've just changed mine recently and they were severely cracked, and the pad was starting to peel away from it's holder.
 
Definitely didn't boil

Even if there was air in there it doesn't make sense because I didn't add any pressure when it started to lock

I've got new brake fluid that's been waiting to go in for months

Wonder if ate pads will rid the car of the brake Judder I've blamed on the pagid Pads for years
 
Matt82 said:
Definitely didn't boil

Even if there was air in there it doesn't make sense because I didn't add any pressure when it started to lock

I've got new brake fluid that's been waiting to go in for months

Wonder if ate pads will rid the car of the brake Judder I've blamed on the pagid Pads for years
Click to expand...

or the judder could be caused by the light use of the brakes, ie pad deposit. 50k out of a set of pads is quite good going. I would just for for discs pads and brake fluid change and go through the heat cycles to get them working properly

Alex
 
A measure of a good brake pad isn't how quick you can lock the wheels up.
That is actually the last thing you want designed into a brake pad. So the fact they didn't lock up "until the last minute" was a good start..
What you should try doing in an emergency situation is to very much large on the brakes initially, then reduce the pressure once the retardation has started to take effect.

Having said that, I've never been a great fan of my Mk4 Golf Gti's brakes either, the pedal travel I find is excessive and just woolly, you don't get any feedback as to what they are doing, you need serious pedal travel and pressure to get them to work hard.
Not confidence inspiring at all.
I dont think that Blue stuff is helping either, I've used that in a Escort cosworth and they felt awful afterwards, swap it out for some simple 5.1 when you change it.
2 years is about the due date for replacement anyway (average 20k miles service interval)
 
Fuzz said:
A measure of a good brake pad isn't how quick you can lock the wheels up.
That is actually the last thing you want designed into a brake pad. So the fact they didn't lock up "until the last minute" was a good start..
Click to expand...

But they were miles from locking up. My foot was hard on the brake pedal and the car felt like it was braking gently

Gonna do the brake fluid flush today. Is there anything to be gained from putting the pistons right back into the calipers when the flush is done to give the pistons a chance to move?
 
If the discs get a good coating of the sludgy salt/water that's currently everywhere then it really delays the onset of hard braking, I had the same issue a few days back on the Civic.
 
Muffin` said:
Yes but you never know when you might have to emergency race. Look at the wet boiling point, **** will last yonks.
Click to expand...

£50 a litre :eek:. Motul RBF 600 is what I have as it is a lot cheaper and is nearly as good. Although SRF is the daddy if you got money to burn.

Have you taken your pads out to see if they are glazed at all? A quick rub down with some sand paper always helps. It might also be wise to take the calipers off and give them a service. Check the sliders, pistons and re-grease where necessary. Also make sure the pads are free to move in the calipers as build up in brake dust over the years can lead to them sticking.
 
So.

Brake fluid is flushed with some plain jane DOT4 ATE stuff. Started at the rear and wound in the piston all the way with the nipple open, logic being id give the piston a chance to move (ie rears havent moved since i fitted them 2 years ago)

Here comes ANOTHER rant about Pagid crap you buy from ECP. The rear callipers were new Pagid items two years ago, fitted and never touched since. Im winding the pistons in and the dust boot is catching big time on the piston (ie probably going to tear it) so i spray some lube in and ease the piston back in but now the dust boot wouldnt sit right. had to spend AGES folding it back into its proper shape.

Sliders all cleaned, everything refitted, moved to the front, cleaned the sliders, carriers (everything moved freely anyway) and bled the lot.

Usually i find it takes about 700-750ml of fluid and this time was no different, including the clutch.

Out on the road it feels much of the same. Pads just drag on the disc when you brake. Poor initial response

Going to get pics up of the pads in a bit. They were fitted when i did the clutch on this car, years ago. Nearer 50k miles ago and they look almost brand new. More pagid crap i expect?
 
Don't hate on Pagid, they make the best pads in the business. Cheapo OEM equivalent pads are never as good as actual OE ones but to the huge majority it seems the same so they get away with it.

Fuzz is totally on it with the locking too. Right now I have some Mintex 'because race car' type pads in the 328 and I hate them. Initial bite is so powerful it just locks up even with sticky rubber on, they squeal something chronic too. Without a doubt yellowstuff were a hundred times better.
 
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Nothing wrong with Pagid pads, they are decent and more than adequate for the average vehicle. I probably wouldn't fit them to high performance vehicles unless it was their racing range, but then other brands would come before them.

As above check the brake hoses next. What is the condition of the pads? Not the amount of meat they have left, are they shiny/cracked?

You say you've done 50k miles, but the pads have done nowhere near that mileage. It's the age of them that will be affecting them the most.
 
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