Branded or generic case?

[fs123]

I was wondering if a branded case is really much better at cooling than a cheap generic case.

Are there any reviews or articles that compare a top end case such as Antec, Silverstone with any cheapo generic case?

 

[PermaBanned]

Definitely, those cheap cases you can get for a tenner are fine for generic low end, stock clocked components but the advantages to having a well designed and made case are huge.

Thing is though, those cheap cases really don't cost that much less to make than any others, the prices charged for high end 'branded' cases are really quite shocking.

 

[Ordokai]

I was wondering if a branded case is really much better at cooling than a cheap generic case. [snip]

Define 'much', we are heavily limited by ambient temps and the second law of thermodynamics, the diminishing returns involved in keeping things cooler are insane. Indeed, it seems we are reaching the limit of conventional air cooling already with the higher-tier HSFs. (assuming reasonable component parameters) There's only so much more we can do unless components themselves start running cooler.


You need those 'brand' cases to push the limits of your rig, but you'll be able to -almost- catch up to them by using rubbish cases with relative ease. In any case, (pun unintended) the actual CPU/GPU cooler will always contribute more to the raw results. Then again, it's always a cumulative endeavour with cases complimenting heatsinks and visa-versa to achieve that benchmark-setting 'enthusiast' level.



- Ordokai

 

[PermaBanned]

Define 'much', we are heavily limited by ambient temps and the second law of thermodynamics, the diminishing returns involved in keeping things cooler are insane. Indeed, it seems we are reaching the limit of conventional air cooling with the higher-tier HSFs already. (assuming reasonable component parameters) There's only so much more we can do unless components themselves start running cooler.


You need those 'brand' cases to push the limits of your rig, but you'll be able to -almost- catch up to them by using rubbish cases with relative ease. In any case, (pun unintended) the actual CPU/GPU cooler will always contribute more to the raw results. Then again, it's always a cumulative endeavour with cases complimenting heatsinks and visa-versa to achieve that premium level.



- Ordokai

Conventional?

frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2424&page=1

Thankfully I think the components are being made with efficiency as well as performance in mind.

 

[JonJ678]

I was wondering if a branded case is really much better at cooling than a cheap generic case.

I'm just rebuilding in a m-atx gigabyte case that cost 20 quid. I've got blood on the floor and somehow they managed to make the 3.5" bays slightly too narrow to fit hard drives in. I'm not pleased with it, but it has outlived a 90 quid NXZT rogue.

Temperatures will be fine in any case with sensibly designed airflow, however it's easy enough to find both cheap and high end cases with terrible layouts. A basic summary would be you want largely unobstructed front to back, top to bottom airflow, with no vents or mesh in arbitrary places, no holes or fans in the side. Fans in the top blowing out are alright. Preferably 120mm fans throughout, as good 140mm fans are rare.


This is probably offtopic, so apologies to the OP.

Define 'much', we are heavily limited by ambient temps and the second law of thermodynamics, the diminishing returns involved in keeping things cooler are insane. Indeed, it seems we are reaching the limit of conventional air cooling already with the higher-tier HSFs. (assuming reasonable component parameters) There's only so much more we can do unless components themselves start running cooler.

My best guess is that you have Clausius' statement in mind, but even then I can't see a direct relation between the second law and this. Unless you're taking the approach that all heat transfer is governed by entropy, which seems a touch general to me.

We're limited by the thermal resistance between chip and air, and there's loads that can be done to reduce this. Perhaps we have different ideas of "reasonable" parameters.

Processor to heatsink: Improved by increasing mounting pressure, using solder instead of silicone grease, by nickel plating surfaces, by using flat surfaces. You can take the heatspreader off and solder a heatsink in its place if you've got the guts to, which is about as good as this join can get.

Through the heatsink: Conduction limited, heatpipes are currently in use to improve this, at least one group of nutters is pumping sodium around inside the heatsink. I'm convinced pumping water around the inside of the heatsink is the way to go. I'm not sure if more/bigger heatpipes would help or not, but if you felt like filling the pipes with ether instead of water you'd have an improvement.

Heatsink fins to air: Main improvements here are from matching the fan to the heatsink, coolit put effort into this but I'm not aware of anyone else doing so. Tricky with aftermarket fans and variable fan speeds. Ducting can make a difference here, and given space and pretty decent fans you can get the airflow over the heatsink below ambient.

Arguing for the sake of it really, as I'm convinced water is better than air for cooling computers, under any circumstances. It struck me as quite defeatist to say heatsinks can't get any better.

 

[Ordokai]

With no will to offend those more knowledgeable, I invoked the second law quite simply to illustrate the willingness of the more 'heated' object to 'give away' its heat to the colder one (in this case, air), and how this 'willingness' decreases rapidly as both objects near the same temperature. The constant tendency towards a temperature 'equilibrium' in the environment. 'A touch general' oh very much so, but sufficient for our purposes, to note that it takes exponentially increasing amounts of effort to make HSFs more efficient without modifying the ambient environment. Eventually up to the point when further refinement of current approaches simply become unsustainable, giving way to innovation and industry shifts towards superior solutions. Without mainstream innovation you end up spending loads developing a product granting only minuscule gains.


I took extra care to include words such as 'conventional' and 'reasonable' precisely to exclude radical/expensive/unmarketable/impractical/unavailable etc. solutions/improvements that could potentially push the limits. The ones mentioned are, of course, valid and will improve future products, albeit once again only increasingly slightly (do you see, for example HSFs cooling better than custom water any time soon?), or am I incorrect in assuming the OPs intention to question the present state of things, stuff that's out now ?

The market is relatively slow at introducing new things, it has to be incremental. Partly due to the nature of existing hardware (compatibility), partly due to affordability and also the maximization of profit from a corporate perspective. It's quite clear that 'conventional' HSFs, the traditional ones, the ones with a fan, a heatsink, pressure mounts, thermal compounds, copper/nickel plating will be around for a while longer. The intrinsic thermal properties of metals and their cost is another limitation that comes to mind as well by the way. (let's not delve into alloys and alternatives to solid metal)

In short, most things considered, it's exceedingly hard to bring temps down. My main point, indeed a reply to the OPs question, goes something like this:


You can have this expensive 'brand' case which will keep your temps as low as 34* idle. It costs 250 pounds.

Or, assuming all other things being equal, you can have this rubbish case for 30 quid which will keep your temps at 38*.


Of course the above is purely arbitrary, the numbers are made up and it has little relation to reality, but the principle stands, you might quite possibly end up paying in excess of 200 quid extra just for that relatively minor 4* gain in temps purely because of the diminishing returns involved in pushing it just that little bit more. Or worse yet, as with some of the more stylized and insanely overpriced cases, actually suffer less desirable temps than even the cheapo offerings. However, whether companies are justified in charging us that much for cases is another matter entirely and therefore irrelevant to our present discussion.


I merely attempted to go slightly beyond saying 'yeah it doesn't make that much of a difference considering the price difference', slightly beyond by illuminating some of the potential reasons as to 'why'.


Or did I just make a stupidly simple point in a bizzarely convoluted manner ? If so, I do humbly apologize...



- Ordokai