Since Brawn won the drivers' and constructors' championships last year prior to their buyout, what kind of reasons account for Mercedes doing so badly with Schumacher and Rosberg? Is it the cars, is it the drivers? Assuming they'd built the cars as they had them with Brawn when Button won, what other reasons can there be other than the drivers are not as good?
Brawn GP to Mercedes GP
- Thread starter Merlin5
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The Brawn was built with a full workforce and 400 million of honda money. It was one of the most expensive cars ever designed.
They sacked half the factory and built this years car with a tiny budget in comparison. They also let button by playing hardball which was ridiculous. Button made the right call and they will stay a small also run team until they get more people in and better funding.
Next years car won't be much better I'd wager. Even if Mercedes gave them 4 billion for next year it won't help them hire the right people for next years car in time.
They sacked half the factory and built this years car with a tiny budget in comparison. They also let button by playing hardball which was ridiculous. Button made the right call and they will stay a small also run team until they get more people in and better funding.
Next years car won't be much better I'd wager. Even if Mercedes gave them 4 billion for next year it won't help them hire the right people for next years car in time.
That Brackley outfit was only successful once and that was 2009. All other years they were constantly fighting aerodynamic problems, tyre temperature problems or general balance problems. They will forever be an "also ran". Unless Mercedes invest in a state of the art facility for them and much more funding in general.
2009 was an anomaly because Honda basically threw an open cheque book at Ross Brawn and some little Japanese guy said "we want to win the championship, please see to it for us ok?".
2009 was an anomaly because Honda basically threw an open cheque book at Ross Brawn and some little Japanese guy said "we want to win the championship, please see to it for us ok?".
Were you asleep for 2004 when Button finished 3rd in the championship behind the all-conquering Ferraris, as McLaren and Williams constantly fought aerodynamic problems, tyre temperature problems or general balance problems?
Or does that not count?
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Honda gave up on the 2008 car from the start of the season and just worked on the 2009 car that became the brawn, all the extra development time compared to the other big teams who were fighting for the championship down to the wire led to a better developed car. Brawn also exploited the double diffuser from race 1, while it was a mid season upgrade for the rest of the team.
They also benefitted from a big rule change that enhanced the value of their extra development time.
They also benefitted from a big rule change that enhanced the value of their extra development time.
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You're all wrong!!
Brawn GP was a British Underdog.... The British underdog quite often does really well and punches well above it's weight.
The team is now German, and therefore will lose....
Brawn GP was a British Underdog.... The British underdog quite often does really well and punches well above it's weight.
The team is now German, and therefore will lose....
Current estimates for this years budgets actually put Mercedes in 2nd place behind Ferrari and quite a long way ahead of McLaren and Red Bull.
It doesn't say all that budget is going to Mercedes race team though does it, or what it costs to supply engines to multiple teams. It also doesn't provide better facilities and engineers.
I have to disagree with Danny on this one - budget estimates place Mercedes in at No.2. They have a big budget and have a good chance of doing well, if they spend their money wisely and develop their car in the right direction.
Also have to remember the rules changed the cars a fair bit this year, which people seem to forget or not realise.
people think, just a bit more fuel. But it is far more than that. weight, size and shape has all changed due to fuel.
the other teams would have spent a lot more on development for 2010 than Brawn GP, with a skeleton crew.
people think, just a bit more fuel. But it is far more than that. weight, size and shape has all changed due to fuel.
the other teams would have spent a lot more on development for 2010 than Brawn GP, with a skeleton crew.
Man of Honour
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Not sure if those figures do cover customer engines though? It's a completely separate company.
Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd, an English company with Mercedes as parent company. So essential, I think the Mercedes F1 team buy their engines from Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines Ltd. Yes, essentially the same company, but financially separate.
There was nothing special about last years car it's just that all the other top teams got it wrong. Once the DD was declared legal nearly all the development that the other teams did over the winter became worthless as well as the developments that were in the pipe-line. Also, as the year went on the team either lost their understanding of the tyres, or more likely they never understood how the tyres worked and changed something that hurt the consistency of the car- something that they are still suffering from.
Ithink Brawn had a good start in his team. From the ashes of the now Ex Honda team. Which had ploughed a lot of R&D money into the car before they sold the team. Plus Brawn understood the new rules much better than any one else.
So with Button they started the season ahead of any one else, and the other teams were playing catch up.
However, Brawn had no extra money to keep developing the car in 2009. Hence why the pack from mid season onwards were catching the Brawn cars. I really do believe Brawn knew he had a small window of advantage over the other teams. So therefore needed to max as many points early in the season.
Now Mercedes have the team they just have not pumped the new development money needed to stay ahead.
I thing personally that if they wanted ti ever leave F1 they can and leave Brawn holding the baby !
So with Button they started the season ahead of any one else, and the other teams were playing catch up.
However, Brawn had no extra money to keep developing the car in 2009. Hence why the pack from mid season onwards were catching the Brawn cars. I really do believe Brawn knew he had a small window of advantage over the other teams. So therefore needed to max as many points early in the season.
Now Mercedes have the team they just have not pumped the new development money needed to stay ahead.
I thing personally that if they wanted ti ever leave F1 they can and leave Brawn holding the baby !
Mercedes GP are fourth. I do not think that is bad for a team that has just been bought and changed both its drivers in the same year. It also ploughed all its efforts in to winning last year - no doubt at some detriment to this year's car.
Shumi has got better over the season and thus the team should be doing slightly better than it actually is as it's held back by its poor points total at the start of the year. Whether you rate Shumi as a driver any more I think it's clear that he'll still be able to give amazing insight in developing the car and those benefits will only really be reaped next year.
Shumi has got better over the season and thus the team should be doing slightly better than it actually is as it's held back by its poor points total at the start of the year. Whether you rate Shumi as a driver any more I think it's clear that he'll still be able to give amazing insight in developing the car and those benefits will only really be reaped next year.
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