Would it be fair to claim that this is neoliberalism eating itself? Three decades of deindustrialisation, leaving public services (inc. education) to fall apart, treating the press as a party political tool to influence the public mood, and finally there was an opportunity to lash out against it.
Brexit thread - what happens next
- Thread starter Gilly
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That's a question of perspective. I would view an underhand remain outcome as a disaster.
Soldato
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I agree, jokes aside, that Osborne should either lead from the front or step aside for someone willing to take up the challenge. I'll be livid if it emerges that instead of helping even the keel he was manoeuvring in the background to improve his shot at running for leader.
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Because that is democracy. Not perfect but it is what we have.
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If you want to do it, then do it. Sounds like you'd rather just make excuses, stay and moan instead.
Yeah, but who really gives a ****? If we can remain part of it, separate ourselves from it in various terms, yet benefit from it, then surely we're the winners. It shows how indispensable we'd become. Instead we've instaged a recession and voted for austerity.
Soldato
This is true. It's set to lose it third largest contributor. IIRC it netted £10bn (after rebates and the like) from the UK. Only Germany and France contributed more. So it's going to have a black hole in its finances, or going to need to reduce grants and subsidies.
What's more, it seems like leaving is going to hurt the Eurozone economy more than the UK's. The Eurozone economy was already on life support as it was.
Soldato
That would be the push I need to consider leaving the country, taking my family out of all this.
I cannot live in a country that isn't really a democracy.
Like or hate the vote, maintaining it is extremely important for many reasons.
Democracy isn't a system where nobody is allowed to object to the outcome.
a political disaster maybe
but one that may avert a countrywide disaster
Who has the balls to commit political suicide to ignore the referendum?
a political disaster maybe
but one that may avert a countrywide disaster
One that wont avert terrorism, you dont think the far right will see that as a damn good reason to take it up a notch?
That would spill over into the continent as well and that will be the end of your liberty.
a political disaster maybe
but one that may avert a countrywide disaster
Hmm while I do agree I'm not so sure I'd want to live in a country that vetoed the voters either.
Rock - me - hard place.
Where would you go? Curious as to how many European languages you speak fluently.
Caporegime
Soldato
You and I the same.
Who's going to be the fall guy to take us out? Nobody wants to touch that particular poop.
Caporegime
No, that's not democracy. Democracy is about who leads us or - in a referendum - what they do about a certain issue, not what I think or say. I don't even know what we'd call your weird vision of democracy; it's tyranny of the majority turned up to 11.
Exactly this. it is misplaced anger to blame the ordinary people who were persuaded to vote Leave by disinformation, outright lies and hate rhetoric taking advantage of the extremely difficult economic conditions they have been forced to live under for way too long now.
Who can blame anyone for being angry and disillusioned at being constantly trampled by the privileged classes in this country, squeezed by austerity that wasn't their fault, exploited by zero hours contracts and competing for jobs with lots of migrants undercutting wages. But sadly their anger was misdirected onto the EU by the right wing for their open advantage. That's the real scandal.
I suspect there'll be a lot more anger when such Leavers wake up to the fact they've been manipulated, that there won't be any change to immigration, they won't be spending 350m a week on the NHS, there won't be any replacement for the regional development money currently dished out by the EU. But by then it might be all too late to stop the slide down the toilet bowl, which is where UK politics and the economy are heading if Brexit isn't halted.
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