Budget Phenom or Stick Out for i5?

[The_Butler83]

Hello everybody, first of all apologies as I know they're already a lot of threads about this topic because I've spent hours reading them! All that's resulted in me being more undecided than I was when I started so I thought I would specifically ask instead and hope to gain some insight from all you fine knowledgeable people.

I've been putting off upgrading my machine until Windows7 was available. I've now got a copy and figure if I'm going to reformat I should do it with some nice shiny new gear. However I'm in a dilemma over a CPU.

From reading many threads it seems like AMD Phenoms are the best budget, whereas the i5's and i7's are the best top end.

Now I'm undecided what the best upgrade route is do I -
1) Do I go with what seems like good bang-for-buck and go with the AMD 550?
2) Do I stick with some middle-ground and go with the AMD 720?
2a) Is the extra core a good substitute for the apparent drop in core clock speed from the 550?
3) Do I stretch a little bit further and go for the AMD 955 or 965?
4) If I go for 955/965 it seems a much smaller jump to go for the i5 750 instead which from reading people seem to agree is of a higher standard?
4a) It seems like either get a good deal and go for the 550 Dual Core or push the boat out and go for the i5 750?

Now here's the big question
5) I have a limited budget that *can* stretch to the i5 750 (same applies to 955/965) but at the cost of getting a sub £100 motherboard? Would this limit the gains I get from pushing to get the i5 or are the "cheap" i5 motherboards good "enough"?
5a) With the above in mind would it be better to invest the £70 saved by going with the 550 into getting a better motherboard to pair it with or investing in other areas of the machine? (or is that a better question to ask on the motherboard forums)?

I use the machine for gaming, I don't mutli-task or do video editing etc. I'm not overly concerned about benchmarking or OC'ing to the limits however I do like to OC to get a little more out of my equipment. All the processors I've OC'd have been AMD's so have a soft spot in my heart which may be influencing my decisions also!

I'm upgrading from an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ with an ATi1950 GPU so resulting upgrade should see a good improvement.

I've decided to upgrade to the ATi 5770 but probably won't X-Fire it so that's not an issue.

I have a budget of £200-£250 for Processor/Mobo which I am trying to stick to as going over that will compromise the quality of PSU & Heatsink I'll be able to get - two areas which I really would prefer not to compromise on.

Thanks in advance for reading this and also thanks for patience as I know this has been dicussed several times and I look forward to your comments!

 

[Legion]

Hehe,I had this dilema a while back to.

All I can say is read this

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=857&p=0

As you can plainly see as the clockspeed goes up the Phenom 2 gets left in the dirt by quite hefty margins.

Many here will agree that i5 750 is the best bang for buck gaming sweetspot.
This becomes even more plain to see as the clock speed rises.

You'll see an easy 3.8 ghz even on cheap air cooling for that reason buy an oem chip and use the saving towards a better cooler.

There is also the power usage to consider and the i5 750 excells in this department too.
Paired with any of the Radeon 5000 series you have a comp that runs very low power draw at idle and non gaming usage.

For motherboards for the i5 at £100 or under it's a choice of:-

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-122-MS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-363-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-206-GI&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

I'd personally lean towards the Asus or Gigayte.

For memory Gskill Ripjaw 2x2gb 1600 kits seem to be about the most popular lately for i5's.
Just pick the cheapest as you want bang for buck and there are no "visible" real world gains using lower latency kits.


The real kick in the nuts for pc gamers though is there still only a handful of games that you'd actually "want" to play that take advantage of tri and quad core cpu's.
I really cant see this changing anytime soon with the continued trend of games publishers dishing us ported console crap which makes spending the money even harder to justify.

Also you have to bear in mind that using a single gfx,card any current dual or quad at around 3ghz is plenty good enough for gaming.

Sorry if these statements makes it even harder,but it's something you have to consider.

You will ofc see the AMD boys jump in here but that comparison I've linked above is pretty much indisputable.

 

[Final8y]

Hehe,I had this dilema a while back to.

All I can say is read this

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=857&p=0

As you can plainly see as the clockspeed goes up the Phenom 2 gets left in the dirt by quite hefty margins.

Many here will agree that i5 750 is the best bang for buck gaming sweetspot.
This becomes even more plain to see as the clock speed rises.

You'll see an easy 3.8 ghz even on cheap air cooling for that reason buy an oem chip and use the saving towards a better cooler.

For motherboards for the i5 at £100 or under it's a choice of:-

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-122-MS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-363-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-206-GI&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1495

I'd personally lean towards the Asus or Gigayte.

For memory Gskill Ripjaw 2x2gb 1600 kits seem to be about the most popular lately for i5's.
Just pick the cheapest as you want bang for buck and there are no "visible" real world gains using lower latency kits.


The real kick in the nuts for pc gamers though is there still only a handful of games that you'd actually "want" to play that take advantage of tri and quad core cpu's.
I really cant see this changing anytime soon with the continued trend of games publishers dishing us ported console crap which makes spending the money even harder to justify.

Sorry if that statement makes it even harder,but it's something you have to consider.

You will ofc see the AMD boys jump in here but that comparison I've linked above is pretty much indisputable.

Why would the AMD boys jump in here besides the only reason for them coming in here is that you mentioned them when the linked is indisputable which it pretty much is which the only other reason is that they may have link's that show a different outcome.

 

[Legion]

Why would the AMD boys jump in here besides the only reason for them coming in here is that you mentioned them when the linked is indisputable which it pretty much is which the only other reason is that they may have link's that show a different outcome.

Sorry,that wasnt really meant to provoke an argument.

It's just hard to argue with that comparison as there are no better ones available to illustrate the differences as clearly all in one go.

I've always put my money with whoever has the best bang for buck kit available at the time I'm wanting to upgrade be it Intel or Amd,I cant honestly say I favor one over the other.

 

[Final8y]

Sorry,that wasn't really meant to provoke an argument.

But that is a classic way to get one.

 

[Final8y]

Sorry,that wasnt really meant to provoke an argument.

It's just hard to argue with that comparison as there are no better ones available to illustrate the differences as clearly all in one go.

I've always put my money with whoever has the best bang for buck kit available at the time I'm wanting to upgrade be it Intel or Amd,I cant honestly say I favor one over the other.

Favouring is not a problem as long as that person is happy to a point & they are not really doing themselves a big disservice by choosing a brand when the other does really offer the better for there personal needs.

Intel does not offer for my personal needs unless i pay out a huge % more.

 

[kieves1]

Well if you go for the 965 id look out for the new stepping that has 125w TDP.The reviews show it to be a closer to the I5 than the current model.If you arent to bothered about the lower power then you could just get the older revision.There is a 95W version of the 955 coming out in Q1 2010.Im not to sure about Intel roadmap but i think AMD have Thuban coming out on the AM3 socket which will be 6cores.So this could be beneficial in a year or so if you feel you need a juice boost

With the AMD dual cores with certain boards it is possible to unlock the extra cores to a tri or even quad.If you search around there is a few threads of people unlocking them to basically a 955 on here and with what MOBO.It is not guaranteed though to unlock as 1 core may be faulty but hey you may get lucky.

Good luck with whatever you choose.At the end of the day you will never please every1 as they all have there own opinion.But as long as it all works fine and you have a good performance boost im sure you will be happy which ever way you go

 

[drunkenmaster]

Also you have to bear in mind that using a single gfx,card any current dual or quad at around 3ghz is plenty good enough for gaming.

Sorry if these statements makes it even harder,but it's something you have to consider.

You will ofc see the AMD boys jump in here but that comparison I've linked above is pretty much indisputable.

lol, other than being a VERY poor benchmarking website, you've chosen a site that does two things, it DOESN'T list the settings in the game it uses, and even though it very clearly doesn't use AA/AF/ultra high quality settings, at a closer to gpu limited speed it shows the difference as minimal, through in 16xaf, and 2/4xAA in the mix and the FPS results would be almost identical across most of those cpu's. I'll also point out they use a whole 3 games to test on, even the toughest game at the toughest res on the slowest and oldest cpu, the Q6600 provides over your screens refresh rate in terms of FPS, so according to that review in those games the i5 isn't close to worth the extra.

You do also realise that at the LOWEST speed they use the i5 is overclocked from 2.66 to 2.8Ghz, the AMD chip is UNDERCLOCKED, by 600Mhz, then the highest result is the i5 overclocked by almost a Ghz, while the 965 is overclocked by all of 200Mhz. Its one of the single worst reviews I've seen for any product whatsoever.

I don't think I've not run 16xaf in any game in the past I dunno, 5-10 years, likewise with any even semi high end card 2xAA makes a HUGE difference to image quality and at 1920x1200 will in most games bring it closer to its GPU limits.

The link you've used simply doesn't use in game settings, and you're still looking at the lowest res results they use to show the difference, which is something no one in their right mind will actually be using.


You also managed to mention that any current quad or dual is fine for gaming, while also saying the i5 is infinately and clearly better, both statements are completely incompatible. Its pretty much true that almost any dual is more than good enough for gaming.


The best way to go these days, is realistically as cheap as possible on everything bar the GPU for gaming. Gaming is all about what GPU you have, a £50 dual core and a 5870, will be infinately faster in gaming than a i7 975(honestly no idea what the most expensive cpu is at the moment, i might have the core name wrong there), and a 4870.

Realistically, stretch to any setup that gives you the VERY best gpu you can afford, and still be able to pay for the rest of the parts.


In this case, a 5850, or 2x 5770's straight off and a 550 will give you the best performance. Than a single 5770 and any higher end cpu, theres a couple game around that do like quads though, I'm not quite sure how the cheapo AMD quads do, the £65 ones, that might be the way to go to be honest. Likewise I'm not sure if the 550's unlock to be quads anymore, personally I'd look around, find a list of the cpu's that might unlock to be tri/quad cores and take the risk on one of them and buy the most expensive gpu setup you can get.

An X4 620 at £70 is not at all bad for a quad, it might not be the best cpu ever, but overclock it as far as it will go and you shouldn't really have many issues. A 550 if they unlock has the potential for more performance and all the 4 cores for not a huge amount of difference in cost and frankly in gaming you just won't be seeing any difference at the max playable gpu settings.

 

[reflux]

The real kick in the nuts for pc gamers though is there still only a handful of games that you'd actually "want" to play that take advantage of tri and quad core cpu's.
I really cant see this changing anytime soon with the continued trend of games publishers dishing us ported console crap which makes spending the money even harder to justify.

Not actually true; here's a list of current games that use quad cores:

• Borderlands
• Batman: AA
• Left4Dead
• Left4Dead 2
• Dawn of War 2
• Company of Heroes
• TF2
• Supreme Commander
• Grand Theft Auto 4
• Unreal Tournament 3
• Flight Simulator X
• Lost Planet
• The Last Remnant
• ArmA 2
• World in Conflict
• Crysis
• Far Cry 2
• Anno 1404: dawn of Discovery
• Red Faction: Guerrilla
• Operation Flashpoint 2: Dragon Rising
• Prototype
• Resident Evil 5
• Tomb Raider Underworld
• Prince of Persia 2008
• Shattered Horizon
• Any Unreal 3 Engine game

I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but they will take advantage of extra cores.

 

[Muel]

It's really up to you, in almost ever test I've seen the i5 out performs the 965BE clock for clock, but for ease of overclocking I'd say go for the 965BE. Turn the vcore up to 1.5v, then just increase the multiplier until you find the max stable, then set the ram up and you're done!

It's a personal thing, I've never had an AMD before and fancied one, and I'm getting on really well with this one, it's fully stable at 3.8ghz, never goes over 50C and is fast enough for everything I need it to do. For my next build though, I'll probably go for an Intel.

 

[Game]

just had the same dilema as you upgrading from a 4200+ but after 4 amd processors but didnt let my heart rule my head this time

-
Now here's the big question
5) I have a limited budget that *can* stretch to the i5 750 (same applies to 955/965) but at the cost of getting a sub £100 motherboard? Would this limit the gains I get from pushing to get the i5 or are the "cheap" i5 motherboards good "enough"?
5a) With the above in mind would it be better to invest the £70 saved by going with the 550 into getting a better motherboard to pair it with or investing in other areas of the machine? (or is that a better question to ask on the motherboard forums)?

QUOTE]

i weighed this up and looked at every combo of processor and mobo i could think off but everything i have read allways ends up going the same way back to the i15-750 and a sub £100 mobo some of them have extensive feature sets

the socket should have more life in it than am3 but if like me you will change every 3 years ish that shouldnt be a worry


as for multy core gaming the one i did find the benifit in was football manager works all 4 cores regularly even up to 100% load for a brief second every now and then

 

[Legion]

lol, other than being a VERY poor benchmarking website, you've chosen a site that does two things, it DOESN'T list the settings in the game it uses, and even though it very clearly doesn't use AA/AF/ultra high quality settings, at a closer to gpu limited speed it shows the difference as minimal, through in 16xaf, and 2/4xAA in the mix and the FPS results would be almost identical across most of those cpu's. I'll also point out they use a whole 3 games to test on, even the toughest game at the toughest res on the slowest and oldest cpu, the Q6600 provides over your screens refresh rate in terms of FPS, so according to that review in those games the i5 isn't close to worth the extra.

You do also realise that at the LOWEST speed they use the i5 is overclocked from 2.66 to 2.8Ghz, the AMD chip is UNDERCLOCKED, by 600Mhz, then the highest result is the i5 overclocked by almost a Ghz, while the 965 is overclocked by all of 200Mhz. Its one of the single worst reviews I've seen for any product whatsoever.

I don't think I've not run 16xaf in any game in the past I dunno, 5-10 years, likewise with any even semi high end card 2xAA makes a HUGE difference to image quality and at 1920x1200 will in most games bring it closer to its GPU limits.

The link you've used simply doesn't use in game settings, and you're still looking at the lowest res results they use to show the difference, which is something no one in their right mind will actually be using.

Can you be bothered to link through 10 sites when you get the jist from 1 comparison? no I didnt think so either.

The point here is the OP wants to spend money on a new platform,I couldnt give a monkeys whether you agree or not,I've given an opinion and my recommendation.

Whether it's worth spending the extra to go i5 over something else is ultimately something only he can decide.

 

[Final8y]

Can you be bothered to link through 10 sites when you get the jist from 1 comparison? no I didnt think so either.

The point here is the OP wants to spend money on a new platform,I couldnt give a monkeys whether you agree or not,I've given an opinion and my recommendation.

Whether it's worth spending the extra to go i5 over something else is ultimately something only he can decide.

Well no one should think getting the jist from one site is sensible.
Most of the time if im going to bother at all i will post at least 5 reputable sites.

 

[Legion]

Well no one should think getting the jist from one site is sensible.
Most of the time if im going to bother at all i will post at least 5 reputable sites.

Nah,you just like to argue for the sake of it,same with most threads you post in.
Go ahead and post these links of yours that show the Phenom 2 to trounce the i5 at same clocks,I'm really interested to see it.

 

[littlepuppy]

I moved from I7 to Phenom II and I think its better for games, I really think it crashes less and is smoother.....

And my I7 was totally prime stable....

TBH I really cant see any of the CPUs you are talking about (I5/965/955) struggling with games for the next 18 months so i wouldnt worry too much.

 

[Final8y]

Go ahead and post these links of yours that show the Phenom 2 to trounce the i5 at same clocks,I'm really interested to see it.

That's not the point it just bad practice to show one site in this case.
No go back & read my posts & i said nothing of disagreeing with you about the i5 in the case of the OP's needs.
As i said if i was in your place i would have show at least 5 sites & i said nothing of showing 5 sites of the AMD beating the i5 or vice versa, its simple comprehension.

 

[Final8y]

Nah,you just like to argue for the sake of it,same with most threads you post in.
Go ahead and post these links of yours that show the Phenom 2 to trounce the i5 at same clocks,I'm really interested to see it.

When i advice on GPUs & CPU i do post a multitude of links to lesson the chance of cherry picking & that's a fact if you can be bothered to check my history.
You getting upset changes nothing.

 

[Legion]

That's not the point it just bad practice to show one site.
No go back & read my posts & i said nothing of disagreeing with you about the i5 in the case of the OP's needs.
As i said if i was in your place i would have show at least 5 sites & i said nothing of showing 5 sites of the AMD beating the i5 or vice versa, its simple comprehension.

Feel free to go ahead and link more comparisons.
All I see is you wanting to argue rather than contributing anything positive.

the only other reason is that they may have link's that show a different outcome.

Lets see it then.

 

[Final8y]

Feel free to go ahead and link more comparisons.
All I see is you wanting to argue rather than contributing anything positive.



Lets see it then.

I don't need to learn to post more comparisons, you do.
I have made a positive contribution in advice to you but your too upset to see it.

 

[Legion]

When i advice on GPUs & CPU i do post a multitude of links to lesson the chance of cherry picking & that's a fact if you can be bothered to check my history.
You getting upset changes nothing.

I'm not getting upset here at all,you obviously just dont like people challenging your condescending tone,so in the interests of not ruining this nice chaps post further I bid you all a good afternoon and leave you sir to your pettyness.