Build advice please - I'm not up-to-date at all any more!

[xce1xce]

I used to be relatively knowledgeable with hardware, but I've not worked on my Gaming PC in about 5 years, and only sporadically in the past 12+years really. So some advice would be greatly appreciated please.

I've already picked up a new 9070XT a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't planning on upgrading the CPU/Mobo/RAM yet, but I think they're probably holding me back more than expected, and the talk of RAM continuing to go up in price is spurring me on...

CPU I'm planning to get is the Ryzen 7 7800X3D.

RAM is obviously rather pricey at the moment... so thinking 32gb, but good speeds. One of what appears to be the better priced ones I've found is: G.Skill Trident Z5 XMP 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-51200C32 6400MHz
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/trid...2-6400mhz-dual-channel-kit-mem-gsk-01368.html

Motherboard I'm just trying to keep it cheap as reasonable to offset the other costs really. Needs two M2 slots for my current storage. Beyond that I don't think I have any limitations. Leaning towards a MSI Pro B840M-B (AMD AM5) B840 Micro-ATX (it doesn't need to be Micro-ATX this one just seemed to tick the right boxes for a reasonable price)
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/msi-pro-b840m-b-amd-am5-b840-m-atx-motherboard-mot-msi-05550.html

Current PSU is ~5years old and 750w - has the right connectors for the graphics card so I don't think I'll have any other issues.
CPU cooler is my old Noctua D15 (10years+ old?) it is connected to my AM4 motherboard currently so I believe this will be ok.

I'd be really grateful if anyone had any thoughts or can spot holes in the build? Thanks!

The other two main things I'm wondering about:
1. Whether the cheaper motherboard will hold back the components at all?
2. I read some old info about possibly needing to slow the RAM to 6000mhz for this CPU?

*Edit just noticed I was last on OC asked for advice was 2012

 

[Gray2233]

What is your budget?

What is the exact PSU you have?

Your D15 will be fine to use with AM5, it's essentially the same socket as AM4 and is still a very strong HSF.

The RAM might run at rated speeds or might not, but at worst you'd be able to dial in 6000/c30 without a problem I'd imagine.

 

[pastymuncher]

You say you are on AM4 so what cpu do you currently have? If it's a 3000 series or low end 5000 series it may be just better to drop in a 5700x3d instead. A whopping £300+ for some decent DDR5 6000 is just disgraceful, I know this AI bs has caused this nonsense but when I built this pc last year I paid only £89 for my 32Gb DDR5 6000 C30 memory and it's very good stuff. With prices as they are now I don't think I could stomach paying that much. There are plenty of people on here runnning newer gpu's with 5700x3d's on here. Yes you would gain from jumping to AM5 but at a huge price premium to do so. Cutting back on a motherboard to squeeze the memory into the budget is not a good idea and that motherboard is garbage, no vrm heatsinks and extremely basic.

 

[Tetras]

The other two main things I'm wondering about:
1. Whether the cheaper motherboard will hold back the components at all?

If you have decent airflow, probably not an issue, but the VRM is very basic (not even a heatsink!) and I'd say this is never the intended use of a board like that.

They're meant for low-end PCs, general office/desktop stuff, not a high-end gaming PC with a 7800X3D and 9070 XT.

I can understand wanting to save money, especially due to the RAM, but personally this is a step too far and I'd draw the line at something like Gigabyte's B650 Eagle.

2. I read some old info about possibly needing to slow the RAM to 6000mhz for this CPU?

It depends. They can run up to 6400 @ 1:1, but that depends on the CPU's memory controller and the motherboard.

You can read some more about it in this article, though it is intended for Zen 5 CPUs:

DDR5-6400 and the 1:1 Ratio Advantage
Dropping to DDR5-6400, we see impressive performance that's very close to the higher-speed DDR frequencies, thanks to running at 1:1 UCLK, which avoids the latency penalties of 1:2. At 6400 MT/s, 1:1 is not guaranteed though, it does depend on the silicon quality of the I/O die, and perhaps requires higher SoC voltage. In many cases DDR5-6400 outperforms DDR5-7200 and DDR5-8000, particularly in workloads where memory latency plays a larger role. DDR5-6000 also remains a strong contender, especially at CL28, which is actually the fastest first word timing in all our tests (9.3 nanoseconds). This provides an excellent balance between power consumption and performance, with the added benefit of allowing more power to be allocated to the compute dies (CCDs), further improving overall system efficiency.

Lower Frequencies: DDR5-4800 and 5600
At the lower end, DDR5-4800 and DDR5-5600 fall significantly behind the higher speeds. Their low frequency results in greatly reduced bandwidth, and the JEDEC timings are considerably slower, too, which makes them less suitable for high-demand workloads on Ryzen processors. However, some of the benchmarks show only marginal differences—in these cases the memory subsystem simply plays a minor rule and most work is done by the CPU cores processing calculations, usually with data stored in the caches inside the CPU. This is also the reason why the AMD X3D processors are so successful—their larger L3 cache avoids costly trips to main memory, so the CPU cores won't have to wait for data to come in.

 

[xce1xce]

What is your budget?

What is the exact PSU you have?

Your D15 will be fine to use with AM5, it's essentially the same socket as AM4 and is still a very strong HSF.

The RAM might run at rated speeds or might not, but at worst you'd be able to dial in 6000/c30 without a problem I'd imagine.

Budget is approx £700-800 (I already have the GPU). In the past I've aimed for the CPU I think is about the right value for money, and then fit in the RAM&Motherboard around it.

PSU is a Corsair CX750M. Great thank you for letting me know about the cooler & RAM speeds, and I do love my Noctua. I was over the moon when I found out they provided a free upgrade kit so I could use it with my AM4 upgrade back in early 2020!

Regarding the RAM speeds specifically, would it fail to boot, or

You say you are on AM4 so what cpu do you currently have? If it's a 3000 series or low end 5000 series it may be just better to drop in a 5700x3d instead. A whopping £300+ for some decent DDR5 6000 is just disgraceful, I know this AI bs has caused this nonsense but when I built this pc last year I paid only £89 for my 32Gb DDR5 6000 C30 memory and it's very good stuff. With prices as they are now I don't think I could stomach paying that much. There are plenty of people on here runnning newer gpu's with 5700x3d's on here. Yes you would gain from jumping to AM5 but at a huge price premium to do so. Cutting back on a motherboard to squeeze the memory into the budget is not a good idea and that motherboard is garbage, no vrm heatsinks and extremely basic.

Current CPU is a 3600X, and yes the RAM pricing is just plain depressing. I'm trying not to focus too much on the price it was even a short while ago due to AI. The last time I bought RAM would have been early 2020, and everything has gone up since then, so I feel happier pretending the price is down to good old fashioned inflation and technological enhancements! I have 16gb 3200Mhz DDR4 currently, so I'm thinking this along with the CPU is perhaps holding me back. I had wondered about sticking with the same gen CPU, but with the combination of RAM on top I am leaning towards taking the bigger leap (despite the RAM pain). I'll pay more now, but hopefully get a lot longer out of the rig.

If you have decent airflow, probably not an issue, but the VRM is very basic (not even a heatsink!) and I'd say this is never the intended use of a board like that.

They're meant for low-end PCs, general office/desktop stuff, not a high-end gaming PC with a 7800X3D and 9070 XT.

I can understand wanting to save money, especially due to the RAM, but personally this is a step too far and I'd draw the line at something like Gigabyte's B650 Eagle.


It depends. They can run up to 6400 @ 1:1, but that depends on the CPU's memory controller and the motherboard.

You can read some more about it in this article, though it is intended for Zen 5 CPUs:

Much appreciated for weighing in on the motherboard critique (along with pastymuncher). Sounds like good advice from you both. At this point an extra £35 isn't really all that much! I have really like Gigabyte in the past, I've had a quick look at the B650 Eagle and it looks great. Seems to be RAM compatible on their website as well. Which is more reassuring as I couldn't find the exact RAM on the MSI board list.

I'm afraid the RAM advice went at least partly over my head. Definitely interesting to read, and the jist I got was 6000-6400mhz can be the sweet spot. But I don't exactly know what the 1:1 and 1:2 means (other than 1:1 is best), or how to find out if this build would reach 1:1.

 

[sastusbulbas]

Personally I would list your actual specifications, including the case and monitor resolution.

You I assume have a cooler, PSU, NVMe drives, I am assuming case as you are using a large cooler.

Consider a CPU upgrade with what you have, or a B850 AM5 CPU/MB/Memory upgrade.

With higher resolution you can care less about the CPU as you become GPU bound. Hence asking about resolution.

The 7800X3D benefits will depend on resolution and games. Seems a little silly to buy the cheapest MB you can simply to have an X3D. Your basically spending £150 more on the CPU which is the actual cost of a decent B850 AMX5 motherboard. If you watch some actual running benchmark videos where the 9600x is paired off against the 780X3D you will see in the majority of games the FPS difference is single digit. If your over 200 FPS 20fps is not going to be noticed without a massive HUD overlay.

You want a bang for buck AM5 bundle, this is currently it. Possibly cheaper if you shop around.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Patriot Viper Venom EXPO 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 C30 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit (SKU: MEM-PAT-06805) = £299.99
• 1 x MSI B850M Gaming Plus WIFI6E (AMD AM5) B850 DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MOT-MSI-05943) = £129.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 9600X Six Core 5.40GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: PRO-AMD-02677) = £200.00

Total: £629.98 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

Add £150 if you need a 7800X3D.
Add £20 if you need ATX sized MB.

A new 5700x would be £140 if you shop around.
32gb of C18 3600 DDR4 would be £210
So £350 to upgrade what you have.

 

[Tetras]

or how to find out if this build would reach 1:1.

Unfortunately, you don't, because this is the silicon lottery. So, if you buy a kit that fast, it is just best to be aware that you might need to tweak the frequency manually if you get 6200-6600. AMD don't actually guarantee 6000 either, the CPU is only rated to 5200 (with two sticks), but 6000 is considered a safe target for the majority of CPUs.