Build Proposal, Your thoughts and Opinions please =D, if you dont mind of course

[alien.46.uk]

Hi All,

Sorry for this being my first post . Hope you dont mind me going straight into a potential build.


Anyway, I've been an AMD fan for a long time, but I think my old rig is starting to get a little outdated and I've been offered a pretty good price for it, so I'm looking at building a new rig.

Current spec:

AMD X2 3800+ OC'd @ 2.2 (Not a lot, but not mine for much longer)

MSI K9F Neo-F Mobo

4Gb Patriot Viper 800

Saphire X1650XT OC'd @ 621Mhz GPU - 770Mhz GMS

HDD - I cant remember, but an Average WD unit

Arctic Cooling Freezer CPU Cooler

Generic PSU and Xblade Case

It's a reasonable rig, and the X1650XT is so under rated, out performs several 9800GT's, some good freinds run, which I was pleasently suprised at.

However, that's now and I'm looking at updating a lot and keeping it future proof for a good while, or at least not require major upgrades for the forseable future.

Here's my Proposed Build:

MOBO - Asus Rampage Extreme or Asus P5E Deluxe (Either DDR2 or 3 model of either board) --- RE @ £200-£220, P5E @ £170-£210

CPU - Intel Q6600 G0 --- @ £150

HDD - WD 640Gb (WD6400AAKS) --- @ £44 (The Twin 320Gb Platter)

RAM - Unsure, kinda depends on DDR2/3 choice, but advice welcome --- @ <£100

GFX - Palit 4870 Duel R or 2x 4850 in Crossfire (Which is better?) --- 70@ £180, 50's @ £240 Total

CASE - CoolerMaster CM690 --- @ £60

COOLING - Watercooling? Need advice ...

PSU - Jeantech 700W Modular or Hiper 780W Type-M non-Modular --- Jean @ £70, Hiper @ £80 (Advice gratefully received if better options)

I've read so many reveiws, tried to catch up what's going on (2.5 years out of the computer scene), I think this should be a pretty fast system.

The Q6600 I'd aim to get about 3.6/3.8Mhz stable to run on water.

The GFX probably wouldn't be tweaked to much, but will push for as high a setting I can get stable. And knowing the Palit, probably maed out in Overdrive, even in "Turbo" mode, which is one of it's pre-set settings, changeable by switch on the back.

This will be my everyday system (Only system), used for Gaming, 3D Modelling, 2D CAD, Photoshop, Offline php/sql/html server for development of sites, basically everything, but above are main uses as far as I can think of, most likely more I have forgotten.

I will happily take advaice on anything.

I hope I've provided a good amount of info for your help and I really appreciate it. I also hope this is in the right place, I hunted about but couldn't find a more suitable place.

Thanks in advance,

Luke.



P.S. I'm also looking for value, the above is pushing it tbh. Screen it will run is a 22" Widescreen.



On a side not, I assume the X48 chipset is still top dog for clocking?

Would the P45 be better, even if it did mean running one GFX card (can only then run xFire at 8x/8x, which is a bit pointless with 16x/16x available)

 

[PwnDirect]

Whats your total budget?

Have you considered i7 or deneb?

 

[95thrifles]

Id stick with the DDR2 based board, DDR3 is way more expensive and not worth the additional premium imo
You could downgrade the m/b and get a Asus 5Q Pro or similar, P45 chipset, and put the £100 you save into a better single gfx card, either 4870x2 or gfx280
I'd get a better make of PSU, the Corsair TX 750W (you dont actually need the 750W I know but the cost difference is negligible and gives you plenty of room for future upgrades)
You havent included O/S, I'd recomend Windows Vista Premium 64 bit
Why you thinking of WC not air? A good air cooler will set you back £40 and do better than a cheap WC system, WC needs to be good set up which ends up costing couple hundred quid

 

[alien.46.uk]

PwnDirect:

Total is about £800 with a little give.

I dont like the sound of i7 tbh, so not looking down that route. Would love a Deneb, but assumed that it's to new for my budget?



95thrifles:

Only problem with P45 is the C/F support. Loosing the 16x duel seems like a loss of potential fairly cheap upgradeability to maybe kick it back into life when 4870's are a little OOD? however I see what your saying and more advice from yourself and other would be appreciated on this matter ...

PSU: I think I agree to an extent ... But how about the Hiper 880W M-Series? Only problem is it's not Modukar like the TX, but that's not the end of the world, especially with it being at the bottom of the CM case, but is a shame.

As to O/S I have several copies of XP and Vista available to me as I've bought many in the past and still have them available (32 and 64 bit) ... Would 64-bit be ok nowadays? Before, there wasn't much support, is that better now?

As to W/C ... I've always assumed even a cheap W/C kit would perform better than good air systems? the kit i'm looking at is the XSPX X20 Delta V3 CPU Kit, which can be expanded to suit the mobo if required (in the sens of the A-RE) ...



Thanks a lot.

 

[PwnDirect]

Would love a Deneb, but assumed that it's to new for my budget?

nope the new phenom II 940 3.0ghz will come in at around £200 - £250 based on pre-order prices & its faster clock for clock than the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ £275.
Also Amd mobos are cheaper so its do able.

Hiper 880W M-Series?

BOOOM! Only joking but it is a hiper

As to W/C ... I've always assumed even a cheap W/C kit would perform better than good air systems?

It will perform around the same but leak everywhere gd water cooling is very expensive based on your budget I would advise against it.


Add in a £200 phenom II 940 3.0ghz & you will have one very nice rig

 

[Big.Wayne]

I'm also looking for value

Hey Alien!

Welcome to OcUK Forums!

I reckon your old computer bits will net you around £170 if sold seperately, add to that around £441 and you can put together a smoking fast Intel® Core™2 Duo tower

• Intel Pentium Dual-Core E5200 "LGA775 Core 2" 2.50GHz (800FSB) - Retail
• Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler (Socket AM2/LGA775)
• Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
• OCZ 4GB (2x2GB) PC2-8500C5 1066MHz Dual Channel Platinum Series DDR2 (OCZ2P10664GK)
• HIS ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI (PCI-Express) - Retail
• Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB SATA-II 32MB Cache - OEM (WD10EADS)
• Sony NEC Optiarc DRU-V200S 20x DVD±RW SATA Dual Layer ReWriter (Black/Silver) - Retail
• Sharkoon Silent Eagle 1000 120mm Fan (x3)
• Antec 300 Three Hundred Ultimate Gaming Case - Black
• PC Power & Cooling Silencer 470W Power Supply

Total: £611.66

I will happily take advaice on anything

• Take all the reviews you have read with a large pinch of salt
• Save as much money as possible
• Always open a door for a lady
• The credit crunch has killed ePeen, Bang for Buck is back!
• A single Radeon HD4850 is more powerful than you realise
• Watercooling is really a gratituitous luxury, as is Multi GPU
• Buy a used 45nm Quad Core in 6 months to replace your E5200 (if u need it)
• Consider power usage/running costs, save some ££££

There you go, made with good intentions of getting you an updated, energy efficient, beach ass fast system, leaving you a nice chunk of change in your pocket (or savings account)

Good luck!

 

[Swi1ch]

Above is good spec. All i'd say is that the above spec is £200 under budget for you, so maybe use a bit more of that to get a better card like a 4870 1GB or maybe a 260-216? A better card now will probably do you better in the long run tbh as a single 4870 is more likely better than a 4850 now and adding another one later (People tend to report lots of problems with dual-gpus in games)

Even if you left that spec the same it's a wicked spec specially for the price, and with a nice case and great fans for it. Do you need vista?

 

[Ben M]

nope the new phenom II 940 3.0ghz will come in at around £200 - £250 based on pre-order prices & its faster clock for clock than the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ £275.
Also Amd mobos are cheaper so its do able.

what?
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17958849
the results there suggest otherwise.

 

[alien.46.uk]

Ben M:

Thanks for the link. Makes for some very interesting reading. And makes me think twice about Phen/2 ...

I was all excited at the proposal for P2 last night and realising i could just about stretch to it, but I'm not so sure now ...

Blimey I can be an undecisive fool sometimes ... But then this will be my rig for 3 years at least and will cost the best part of funding available to me. And which ever post stated "savings account" ... put it this way ... I'm still a student ...



Big.Wayne:

Would that Duel-core system run as fast with intense 3D packages and rendering? My current X2 can take a couple hours to render some models for Uni, so that's why I was thinking Quad may help there?

But will the higher clocks of the E's also help in this area? For other applications etc?

Also some good advice there ... However, Running costs arn't to much of an issue in my personal situation atm.


PwnDirect:

Hiper = BOOM? The M-Series seem'd to get some good tests ... And was on par with the TX750 in a few. I would like the TX750, but the price diff is quite a bit, especially between the 650 and 750 versions.



Thanks for everything so far, it's good to have stuff like this to read and get peoples advice and views on everything.

Thanks a lot,

Luke.

 

[Ben M]

Hiper = BOOM?

got it in one

 

[Big.Wayne]

Would that Duel-core system run as fast with intense 3D packages and rendering? My current X2 can take a couple hours to render some models for Uni, so that's why I was thinking Quad may help there?

But will the higher clocks of the E's also help in this area? For other applications etc?

Hey Alien,

if you doing back to back Rendering then a quad certainly has an advantage, the problem is if Rendering is your thing then Intel® Core™ i7 really is the way forward as predictive tasks such as Rendering/encoding is its main strength.

Are you a budding 3D-Artist? like is that what you are studying or?

 

[alien.46.uk]

Ben M:

Advice taken and noted ...



Big.Wayne:

I'd like to think I am but far from it. It's only really for Uni, and no, I do Motorsport Technology, but includes design and testing through thigs like Solidworks etc ...

I do however like to to some 3DS Max stuff as a hobby.

The main use for this PS is everything:

Gaming (FPS and Race Sims)
2D (Photoshop, GIMP, 2D Rendering)
Web Design (Bit of Extra income on the side etc)
Report Writing (Well ... Last minute report writing )
Web
File Storage
Small Video Editing

Yada yada yada ...

I suppose the most used program are photoshop and games to be honest.

I do like me modelling though and am tempted to also do a course on this sort of thing, so may eventually become a necessety, but this may not happen, so I dont want to build this rig with that in mind.


Thanks a lot, and there's some good trains of thought going on on here, I like everyone's thinking ... Very sensible ...


Thanks,

Luke.

 

[Big.Wayne]

I'd like to think I am but far from it.

Hey again alien,

I would say a lot of people kid themselves into paying for features that they seldom actually need, i've done it myself many times!

There is no doubt you are due for an upgrade though. I'm a big fan of Socket 939 and even today I wouldn't call these systems slow but when you sit one next to an juiced Intel® Core™2 machine it becomes evident how slow they actually are for intensive tasks . . .

I've been designing and building computer systems bespoke stylee for over 10 years mainly catering for creative type people (photographers, V.J's, artists, video editers etc) and all my clients are very happy.

I occasionally take on a project for a crossover Creative/ePeener, that is someone who uses their PC mainly for creative media related tasks but who also has spent a few hours reading a computer magazine/forums and gets an idea in their head about what they want and to be honest these are the clients that give me the most headache.

They don't really understand computer hardware but they absorb all the PC industry hype and forum posts made by obsessive benchmarkers and decide they need all the bells n whistles and futureproof features and normally end up spending twice as much money as is needed!

The spec I posted above is approximate and open to slight adjustments but it really is a very capable system that can be overclocked beyond 3GHz with not much effort, 4GB of fast DDR2 memory, 1000GB of local storage and an amazing graphics card all wrapped up in a very swish case, it will certainly not fail to impress!

If your the type of user that preferes to talk about their hardware then by all means spend more so you can impress the ladies down the student union bar, but if your an actual power user who views their machine as a tool and wants to get stuff done while at the same time likes to have some cash left then bang for buck is your mantra!

Quite a few times I've seen two people sitting down at a LAN party, the first person likes to talk about their hardware ("yeah I just upgraded to 12GB of ram" etc) and they have spent like £1500 on their rig while the second person just likes to blow things up and test their skills against some elite russian snipers but his machine costs around £600, once the fraggin commences it becomes painfully obvious there is hardly any difference between the two systems and normally the bang-for-buck user is the better gamer because hes been busy practicing his headshot skills while the ePeener has been spending hours on the forums trying to impress his bretheren with all his expensive kit!

Engand is financially ****** atm and money isn't as easy to come by as it was the past few years, spend wisely my friend and enjoy!

 

[kazakore]

If what Big Wayne just said is a little tl;dr then just take in the following two rules.


Law of Diminishing Returns

Tried and Tested above Pushing Boundaries





Personally I would wait a fair while before even considering an i7 and Penom II, especially with how poor the P4 with it's HT technology ended up being after all the hype...

 

[alien.46.uk]

Big.Wayne:

Thanks for some sensible head talk ... Kind of puts a few things in perspective.

On the Skt 939 bit, I'm on AM2 X2's ... Not 939, but then there's not to much difference anyway when considering the X2 3800+ lol ...

-----

I've been pottering about seeing what I can build. I've build up another rig using purly OCUK ... Not sure it'll all come from here but most of it will, well for this build which is subject to most likely changing.

Here's the Basket:

However I do realise the board is X48 and the GPU nVidea, which makes you wonder why I dont got for P45 ...

Well I'm considering it, but I think I've fallen in love with that board. Plus I'm still tempted by the PalIt 4870, but the price of the 280's atm makes me think twice.

Will the E8500 clock as well on X48 than P45?

Also I know I've snuck in another W/C kit in there, but I'm still totally undecided on that one.

Am I going OTT again here?

Obviously I'd save about £40 on cooling with Air, such as the 120 Extreme or the Tuniq one pointed out somewhere above.

Also I'd save about £60 on goin for the PalIt 4870, or £30, if I went with a cheaper 280 (Not Pre-OC'd etc) ...

Plus a save of about £40, if I went with Gigabyte EP45-UD3P board for instance.

I'd add a few case fans and a 120mm for the Ultre Extreme too if I went that way, so that +£40 odd ...

I could also go for a not so speedy HDD, but more space.


However I do also agree Big.Wayne, that E8400 system you posted up is a very good system for not a lot of money. Still very tempting indeed.

I'm just so crap at making decisions ...