Buying a house BUT possibly no Planning Permission for the garage and conversion

PaDE

PaDE

PaDE

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The valuation report we had on the the house we are buying recommended we check for planning permission for the garage conversion (into an annexe/bedroom) and the building of a double garage.

All we got back from the solicitors was that the supportive paperwork for the conversion and the building work is not available, however the vendors are happy to sign some indemnity insurance.

I read this to be no planning permission has been granted.

I'm annoyed as it's quite late in the game and we are/were looking to exchange this week.

We really don't know what to do. Pull out or accept the insurance?

If there is no planning permission, maybe we could get retrospective planning permission?

What happens if we can't get planning permission? The council are aware of the breach and things have to be reverted?

If I accept the insurance, what happens if we plan to sell 5, 6 or 10 years down the line? will we have to sign indemnity insurance to the new buyers or will the existing insurance cover it?

The house is a 5 bed (annexe as the 5th), if we do sell in a few years time we would like to advertise it as 5 and not 4.

Any thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks
 
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When were the conversions built. Planning permission is pointless past i think its ten years.

"What are the time limits for taking enforcement action?
Development becomes immune from enforcement if no action is taken:

Within four years of substantial completion for a breach of planning control consisting of operational development;
Within four years for an unauthorised change of use to a single dwellinghouse;
Within ten years for any other breach of planning control (essentially other changes of use).
These time limits are set out in section 171B of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990."

We had the same with the house we just purchased and our solicitor said the planning permission isn't worth the paper its printed on, ours were built over 15 years ago.
 
Actually what you need to worry about is valuation and whether the conversion will be counted as a habitable room - that doesn't matter if it was built 5 years ago or 20 years ago. It could suddenly become a house with one less room officially!

So far as enforcement and planning is concerned as noted above 10 years. Also consider whether the conversion met building regulation standards at the time even though they didn't apply for any.
 
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing showing on the council search.

@robj20, what are the implications if you was to sell in the future and your buyers solicitor questions it?
 
Shoza, that's what I'm worried about.

The other issue is that we have made plans and want make our own renovations and extend. I feel it could become a can of worms having the council around as they will ping the work already done immediately.

It's a gorgeous house (my first, partners 2nd) and I'm not getting any younger. This appears to be a big kick in the chesters.
 
When was the extensions built? After a certain period (10 or maybe 20 years) if becomes a permanent fixutre so no issue.

Something similar came up on one of my properties with a kitchen extension and my solicitor got the seller to pay for an indemnity insurance to cover any issues on it should it be picked up once I had bought it. it was only 3 years that needed to pass before it became a permanent part of the property and I had no problems.
 
you shouldn't need any planning permission for a habitable annex as long as it doesn't cover more than 50% of the garden area as per the plot on the title deed AND you're not registering it as a separate dwelling or renting it out.

Also with regards to planning permission, it is 12 years, after which time the council will lose any right to challenge it.

I don't see a problem here:

1. if you're paying for the annex, you ask for building control and planning permissions (even if you don't need it). If they don't have it, you don't pay for it. Simple

2. Worst case scenario, you demolish the annex which I'm guessing is not a giant structure, put it all in a skip and get on with the extension you want to do

Forget about indemnity insurance, it isn't worth the paper it's printed on so I wouldn't fight this battle too hard
 
Mark M said:
When was the extensions built? After a certain period (10 or maybe 20 years) if becomes a permanent fixutre so no issue.

Something similar came up on one of my properties with a kitchen extension and my solicitor got the seller to pay for an indemnity insurance to cover any issues on it should it be picked up once I had bought it. it was only 3 years that needed to pass before it became a permanent part of the property and I had no problems.
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This is the key question - when was the work carried out. We recently purchased a property without planning permission for an attic conversion. The work had been completed > 7 years previously, so our solicitors werent worried at all as after this period there was no comeback for the council etc.
No need for indemnity in our case.
 
PaDE said:
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing showing on the council search.

@robj20, what are the implications if you was to sell in the future and your buyers solicitor questions it?
Click to expand...

They get told the same thing as us, the council wont issue new documents as they are meaningless past 10 years.
 
As mentioned above if the new garage is <50% of the land outside of the house itself (iirc) then it's ok under 'permitted developments', so worth checking that out first.

But I had a similar problem with my house, the previous owner had built a large garage (which was the primary reason I wanted to buy it), and although he'd got planning permission the house was covered by a 'covenant' that required consent before any modifications, which he hadn't gotten.

They initially wanted to provide indemnity insurance but my understanding was basically that the covenant holder could decide on a whim to demand I return the house to how it was before the garage. The indemnity insurance should cover the costs, and could potentially challenge it legally, but ultimately it was their decision and I could've ended up buying a house to get a large garage and then having that taken away.

For me this was unacceptable, so I refused to buy until they'd gotten 'retrospective consent', they tried to drag their feet a bit but eventually gave in, applied for and got the consent and I bought it.

Not sure what happens/how easy it is to get retrospective planning permission, but personally that's what I'd aim for in your situation, it's not (imo) worth the hassle, if you pull out now it'll cost a chunk sure, but if you buy and then 'lose' the 5th bedroom and/or the garage surely that would be worse? Even if that is quite unlikely, it's not your problem it's the sellers.
 
Guys really appreciate the replies.

I just spoke to the Mrs who has picked up and read our post at her parents house.

Within this exchange pack, there is planning permission but it looks like they never got it signed off. So that's the old garage attached to the house being converted into an annex and then subsequently a double garage being built next to the house.

All this work took place 15 years ago. This is outside the 12 years posted above and which I've read elsewhere. So it'all been standing long enough for nothing to be undone and long enough for the council to not want to give paperwork out retrospectively....is that correct?

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, all is good. To add (which may now not be relevant) the vendors are happy to sign indemnity insurance.

Champagne back on ice?
 
Planning permission doesn't usually get "signed off" - it's either awarded or it's not, though there may be conditions attached.

Building Regs usually needs signing off.


PaDE said:
What happens if we can't get planning permission? The council are aware of the breach and things have to be reverted?
Click to expand...

Applying for retrospective planning permission might have implications for the insurance.

PaDE said:
If I accept the insurance, what happens if we plan to sell 5, 6 or 10 years down the line? will we have to sign indemnity insurance to the new buyers or will the existing insurance cover it?
Click to expand...

Title insurance often runs in perpetuity and is also often transferable, so could simply be passed on to the new buyers.
 
The time limit for planning enforcement action in this case would be 4 years. Both for the new garage and the conversion of the room. You could get them to apply for a certificate of lawful development if they have evidence of the date (roughly) the works were complete and the LPA would issue a certificate to the effect that the developments are lawful by virtue of the fact no enforcement action may be taken.
 
Been through this recently. In this case it would be 4 years for potential enforcement action. After this time you can either go with the indemnity insurance which will be fine, or seek a certificate from the council of lawful development.

Or buy the house and then seek the certificate from the council to wrap it up forever.
 
There are two separate issues with this:
planning permission for the change of use of the garage to a bedroom - the only major issue would be if there was no other on site parking available, however the double garage would likely be enough as you haven't reduced the parking on site, however some newer developments have restrictions/covenants which expressly restrict conversion of garages (Assuming the solicitor has checked all that) - maybe worth looking to get a certificate of lawfulness if the work is fairly recent
Building Regs for the garage conversion - not to be confused with planning. This type of conversion would generally need building regulation approval involving inspection of the works during construction etc - as it stands you have no way of knowing whether there is sufficient insulation/ventilation etc etc to make it a habitable room - that's really where the risk is imo.
They could apply for a "regularisation" but it's likely to involve opening up walls etc to show compliance with the regs http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/bu...ogetapproval/bcpresiteapproval/regularisation

tbh it's a pretty good negotiating position, you just have to take a view on it really, solicitors can really hold up things with a situation like this
 
Thanks all, I feel a lot better about this now. I read all the paper work last night, jeez had to reread as well.

We've got an appointment with our Solicitor today so off we trot. If all is well and we can get a moving in date agreed then we will be signing to exchange today (deposit already held by solicitor) ..... Happy days!
 
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