buying stuff from europe? VAT ? TAX ETC?

[GSXR Gaz Mc]

Whats the deal with buying stuff now?

i did have some things in my basket from fanatec but now there is no vat to pay so it makes them cheaper

but will i be hit with any other tax or payment when it gets here

the gov web site is a bit of a mare at the mo and most stuff has been changed or abolished since 31st dec

does anyone know for sure

thanks

 

[tom_e]

Companies sending stuff into the UK should now be charging VAT at point of sale from what I've seen.

I imagine it's going to be like importing from the rest of the world you may get a bargain, you may get hit for import duty/vat/processing fees so it's a gamble.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

 

[GSXR Gaz Mc]

found this

Imports by UK Consumers
From 1 January 2021, VAT on imported goods with a value up to £135 will be collected at the point of sale, not on import.
The seller will be responsible for registering, collecting, and accounting for VAT even if they are an overseas seller.
For consignments over £135 VAT can be collected by the vendor or paid by the consumer upon import.

so thats VAT to pay but cant see any other charges

 

[chrismscotland]

Yeah you will get hit on import if its over £135; a lot of places are choosing just to scrap selling to the UK as they don't want the hassle.
I'd imagine Fanatec would though given the cost of their stuff!

 

[Nasher]

What if the overseas seller just doesnt bother paying the VAT, what can the UK do about it?

 

[gc123]

not sure , ive bought stuff in the past when i was vat registered and found it very hard with some suppliers to get vat invoices, sometimes when challenged the european ones have backed down and removed the charge, but others just either send numbers through that dont seem right (verified by my accountant at the time) or just didnt send anything.

was told by my accountant that because of the low value of goods maybe better to just swallow costs and pass them on to customers . (100 to 5/600 pounds mostly)

on some of the trade forums i belong have now seen some companies again just go quiet when asked for vat reciepts even though they are charging it now on top. i guess if you need the equipment/goods and they are still the primary supplier you just take it on the chin and pay.

either that or refuse to order from them and pay more money if available from uk or take a risk on another supplier somewhere else in the world.

in the end if the end product is being sold on to a customer , they will be the ones who have to bear the extra cost, if for own use well take it or leave it.


i very much doubt that vat office will go after loads of foriegn companies for non payment of vat, can't see it being viable.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

What if the overseas seller just doesnt bother paying the VAT, what can the UK do about it?

Two things, depending how bothered they can be

1) they could take the more extreme view and dispose of them, technically anything entering customs that is incorrect cannot leave and as such it usually ends up being destroyed. Part of this is the paperwork proving that all the correct certificates etc are there and there is proof of or a means for all duties, taxes etc to be paid to HMRC. (for businesses you set up an account which guarantees this to avoid delays)

or more likely

2) they could pass parcels to a company who pay the duty/VAT at that point then hold the end consumer to ransom for this amount. They often add a fee for doing so which technically you have no contract for, some people successfully fight it, others fail. As they have your goods your in a tricky position. If this becomes a big thing I expect the revenue (via an exchequer supported bill such as the budget) will make it a legally prescribed thing that a reasonable handling fee can be charged.

 

[Nasher]

Two things, depending how bothered they can be

1) they could take the more extreme view and dispose of them, technically anything entering customs that is incorrect cannot leave and as such it usually ends up being destroyed. Part of this is the paperwork proving that all the correct certificates etc are there and there is proof of or a means for all duties, taxes etc to be paid to HMRC. (for businesses you set up an account which guarantees this to avoid delays)

or more likely

2) they could pass parcels to a company who pay the duty/VAT at that point then hold the end consumer to ransom for this amount. They often add a fee for doing so which technically you have no contract for, some people successfully fight it, others fail. As they have your goods your in a tricky position. If this becomes a big thing I expect the revenue (via an exchequer supported bill such as the budget) will make it a legally prescribed thing that a reasonable handling fee can be charged.

But is the VAT collected straight away (I'm guessing not) or after a few weeks/months when the company does their tax returns etc. Too late by then as the goods have already passed through.

This is probably why it isn't done this way round...

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

But is the VAT collected straight away (I'm guessing not) or after a few weeks/months when the company does their tax returns etc. Too late by then as the goods have already passed through.

This is probably why it isn't done this way round...

Its monthly but for individuals far more likely the second approach since you have to apply for and be granted a deferral account.
I am guessing the thought was to do similar with foreign companies but as ever based on a lot of assumption
Its not been well thought out, probably one of the Brexit brainiacs such as David Davis or Raab came up with it

 

[v0n]

The more I think about it, the more weird this whole new VAT regulation seems.

Let's just say, for the sake of this example, that you browse the internet and find a seller of hand made boutique t-shirts. The shop is in Netherlands. T-shirts are 20 euro each incl. Dutch VAT. You buy five of them, click on shopping cart, shipping is added, you pay via paypal and off you go.

Meanwhile in Netherlands some shop owner just received their first order in 2021 from UK. And after packing the t-shirts into box and ordering delivery via pakket2gaan our Dutch entrepreneur discovers that in order to get it collected by the courier he has to fill out a new mandatory form to go with the shipping. But this time, unlike shipping to US or any other country outside of EU - it's not a customs form, it's an additional VAT declaration. And on that declaration he's required to write down things he never ever had to put on any customs form or shipping manifest to any country on the planet ever - a VAT number that doesn't belong to his national tax office and EORI number issued by foreign tax office that's no longer part of the "E" in EORI.

Confused and perplexed Dutch seller gets on the phone to his accountant and discovers that a foreign government of an island just outside of Europe since last Friday usurp a right to profit off his hard Dutch handy work and requires him to hand over his bank details for direct debits and register for VAT.

What's even more bizarre, the Customary Revenues of Majestical Heirs, or some such thing from a far away land, demands of him to become tax a collector in-situ on behalf of the Head Tightwad of Borissian Isles' treasury. His first task is to call his British customer and retrospectively demand additional levy of 4 euros on each T-shirt, only for the purpose of transferring it back to the Kingdom of Uniteds coffers via swift. "Because this individual on your server belongs to us, so we'll need you to kindly Dick Turpin his four letters on our behalf and then send us sack of his money. Thank you for your honesty, cooperation and respect" reads the short version of the legislation on the web.

And his second task of 2021 is to rebuild his website, shopping cart and merchant backend in such a manner that it automatically adds 20% impost on his Dutch products if any of them get ordered by someone living up to 500km east of Ireland.

The way I see it, there are three reactions/options.

One option is to say "**** it, that's just mad", cancel the order and never make a mistake of letting UK customer onto your websites and servers ever again.

Second option is to follow the procedure to the letter.

Third option is to realise that any opportunistic backwater country brave enough to ask a stranger like YOU to do their tax collecting must be disorganised and really short on resources plus - they have absolutely no jurisdiction over your EU business and they literally just resigned from participation in European courts.
So you grab that form, stick it on 100 euro worth of packed t-shirts and write:

Net value of product: 10 cents
UK VAT: 2 cents
Delivery: 99.90 euros
Contents: Biological waste for testing
UK VAT number: GB11223344
EORI: yomama

And ship it out with tracking number. It's not your problem, let the customer track it and enquire to border control about it. HMRC doesn't own you abroad, you just bin their letters if they ever arrive.


But I guess the main question is - what would YOU do, if you were selling stuff over the internet and some Principality of World's End wanted you to register for their irrelevant local taxes and levies if you shipped your product to their country?

 

[chrismscotland]

But I guess the main question is - what would YOU do, if you were selling stuff over the internet and some Principality of World's End wanted you to register for their irrelevant local taxes and levies if you shipped your product to their country?

Its funny I was just reading an article in the Times about Chinese sellers on Amazon who have been avoiding VAT for ages and are now caught by the new rules meaning prices have shot up.
Most sellers probably operate via a 3rd party marketplace now like Etsy, Amazon or eBay and its their responsibility to collect the VAT; smaller operations with their own site will probably be more able to just chance it.

Personally I'd probably opt for option 1....

 

[Rofflay]

Got to say terrible lack of clarity. Is the under £14 no fee scrapped? Though i do believe this is better from NI as far as i understand nothing changes between me and any EU seller. It is the GB to NI businessmen who caught all the flak.

Little me dodged a bullet imo, As the UK manufacturing sector is NON EXISTANT and a complete joke. Everything is either made in the EU, America or China. Now there are fees for all three. When i supported Brexit i at least thought these clowns would swap to a VAT union with the USA for example but now this is worse for your average consumer. It would have been a non issue in say 1901, As Britain was an apex but in 2021 where they think service is an actual industry it is a joke.

 

[Kenai]

Got to say terrible lack of clarity. Is the under £14 no fee scrapped?

Yes, LVCR is scrapped.

For imports of goods from outside the UK in consignments not exceeding £135 in value (which aligns with the threshold for customs duty liability), we will be moving the point at which VAT is collected from the point of importation to the point of sale. This will mean that UK supply VAT, rather than import VAT, will be due on these consignments.

The new arrangements will also involve the abolition of Low Value Consignment Relief, which relieves import VAT on consignments of goods valued at £15 or less.

That said, NI is a seperate beast:

This paper does not cover matters specified in the Northern Ireland protocol. The government continues to work through the implications of the Northern Ireland Protocol, including in relation to VAT and excise. The government is committed to providing guidance on how the Northern Ireland Protocol will work ahead of the end of the transition period.

I don't know if they've met that commitment to provide guidance yet.

 

[Rofflay]

Yes, LVCR is scrapped.

Makes importing of low value items impossible then. Really bad for your citizens how does it work now? For me Royal Mail Gestapo would send me a letter demanding a £14 fee just for holding the package. Add on 20% vat how can you buy a low value item? You cant and there are things the UK simply does not manufacture.

It is OK for Boris etc and the Queen, They could order 10x low value items and stock up or pug with family but if you are an average joe this really screws you over. An example being a replacement part that broke for me, It cost 13 euro how would i replace that part or buy a spare? Would i need to pay 13 + 14 + 20% VAT? Thats madness!

 

[ICDP]

The remainers said this would happen but it's just Project fear, everything will be cheaper after brexit. Why are none of you embracing the Brexit dream, think happy thoughts you traitorous scum. /s

 

[Kenai]

Makes importing of low value items impossible then. Really bad for your citizens how does it work now? For me Royal Mail Gestapo would send me a letter demanding a £14 fee just for holding the package. Add on 20% vat how can you buy a low value item? You cant and there are things the UK simply does not manufacture.

It is OK for Boris etc and the Queen, They could order 10x low value items and stock up or pug with family but if you are an average joe this really screws you over. An example being a replacement part that broke for me, It cost 13 euro how would i replace that part or buy a spare? Would i need to pay 13 + 14 + 20% VAT? Thats madness!

In theory you will be missing out the handling fee, potentially, because now we expect the foreign company to register for VAT, collect the VAT at source and then pay HMRC directly, so net result should just be an extra 20% VAT on previous exempt items.

 

[Semple]

The more I think about it, the more weird this whole new VAT regulation seems.

Let's just say, for the sake of this example, that you browse the internet and find a seller of hand made boutique t-shirts. The shop is in Netherlands. T-shirts are 20 euro each incl. Dutch VAT. You buy five of them, click on shopping cart, shipping is added, you pay via paypal and off you go.

Meanwhile in Netherlands some shop owner just received their first order in 2021 from UK. And after packing the t-shirts into box and ordering delivery via pakket2gaan our Dutch entrepreneur discovers that in order to get it collected by the courier he has to fill out a new mandatory form to go with the shipping. But this time, unlike shipping to US or any other country outside of EU - it's not a customs form, it's an additional VAT declaration. And on that declaration he's required to write down things he never ever had to put on any customs form or shipping manifest to any country on the planet ever - a VAT number that doesn't belong to his national tax office and EORI number issued by foreign tax office that's no longer part of the "E" in EORI.

Confused and perplexed Dutch seller gets on the phone to his accountant and discovers that a foreign government of an island just outside of Europe since last Friday usurp a right to profit off his hard Dutch handy work and requires him to hand over his bank details for direct debits and register for VAT.

What's even more bizarre, the Customary Revenues of Majestical Heirs, or some such thing from a far away land, demands of him to become tax a collector in-situ on behalf of the Head Tightwad of Borissian Isles' treasury. His first task is to call his British customer and retrospectively demand additional levy of 4 euros on each T-shirt, only for the purpose of transferring it back to the Kingdom of Uniteds coffers via swift. "Because this individual on your server belongs to us, so we'll need you to kindly Dick Turpin his four letters on our behalf and then send us sack of his money. Thank you for your honesty, cooperation and respect" reads the short version of the legislation on the web.

And his second task of 2021 is to rebuild his website, shopping cart and merchant backend in such a manner that it automatically adds 20% impost on his Dutch products if any of them get ordered by someone living up to 500km east of Ireland.

The way I see it, there are three reactions/options.

One option is to say "**** it, that's just mad", cancel the order and never make a mistake of letting UK customer onto your websites and servers ever again.

Second option is to follow the procedure to the letter.

Third option is to realise that any opportunistic backwater country brave enough to ask a stranger like YOU to do their tax collecting must be disorganised and really short on resources plus - they have absolutely no jurisdiction over your EU business and they literally just resigned from participation in European courts.
So you grab that form, stick it on 100 euro worth of packed t-shirts and write:

Net value of product: 10 cents
UK VAT: 2 cents
Delivery: 99.90 euros
Contents: Biological waste for testing
UK VAT number: GB11223344
EORI: yomama

And ship it out with tracking number. It's not your problem, let the customer track it and enquire to border control about it. HMRC doesn't own you abroad, you just bin their letters if they ever arrive.


But I guess the main question is - what would YOU do, if you were selling stuff over the internet and some Principality of World's End wanted you to register for their irrelevant local taxes and levies if you shipped your product to their country?

Whilst an amusing read, i do imagine you'll find a lot of chinese sellers will downplay the value of the product, and up-play the value of shipping. Especially seeing as in most cases stuff you buy from Aliexpress has free shipping - which must be taken into account when pricing the item.

I need to order some sensors from Aliexpress and whilst they're only about £3-4 each, the VAT is pretty negligible, what i'm more begrudged about is if it comes through customs and gets passed to a carrier to deal with any duties and stings me for a hefty fee for doing so.

But it's not clear whether the seller will pass on the VAT costs, or if i have to arrange that (+ how), plus what happens if i arrange to pay the VAT and the seller has already done so. It starts to create a bit of a mess.

 

[Kenai]

Whilst an amusing read, i do imagine you'll find a lot of chinese sellers will downplay the value of the product, and up-play the value of shipping. Especially seeing as in most cases stuff you buy from Aliexpress has free shipping - which must be taken into account when pricing the item.

I need to order some sensors from Aliexpress and whilst they're only about £3-4 each, the VAT is pretty negligible, what i'm more begrudged about is if it comes through customs and gets passed to a carrier to deal with any duties and stings me for a hefty fee for doing so.

But it's not clear whether the seller will pass on the VAT costs, or if i have to arrange that (+ how), plus what happens if i arrange to pay the VAT and the seller has already done so. It starts to create a bit of a mess.

As an online marketplace I think Aliexpress are responsible for dealing with the VAT collection and payment

 

[Semple]

As an online marketplace I think Aliexpress are responsible for dealing with the VAT collection and payment

That's my understanding too. I guess it'll still be a question of whether their sellers do so, or if that automatically happens through the platform - which would make more sense and make it a lot easier for sellers. They don't have to faff around with the tax/duties part, and can leave the platform to do it on their behalf.

Aliexpress seem to have good buyer protection (albeit i've not needed to use it), so i might take a chance and if it gets stuck i'll log a item not delivered claim.

 

[Sasahara]

Anyone imported something under £135 worldwide and not paid vat yet?

Interested what happens as it seems a lot of companies that have their own sites don't care about HMRC threats they they have no legal ability to act on in their country of origin.

Are you getting charged VAT like we used to, as we still are for shipments over £135?