Calling outdoor experts... Winter jackets - down vs synthetic.

[413x]

I own quite a lot of winter gear. But my camping hobbies have required me to have a outer layer for walking and one for being "still" at camp.

I get very very warm even walking.
Warm enough to only need 2 layer leggings on bottom A merino base and an outer synthetic mid layer and that's it.
Now when I stop I can get quite cold. Cold enough to need a thicker layer. Which I can't wear walking.

I've been trialing some new items. I already own a rab xenair alpine. (primaloft). But I assumed a down jacket would be better.

So I purchased a rab microlight alpine. I expected this to be warmer despite being a thin down jacket.

Tonight I went out in no wind 1c for a walk and felt a tad cold in the microlight (down). I went back home and got my xenair (primaloft) and it was warmer!

This has thrown me a bit. I expected the down jacket to be better even if thin. And wonder what the purpose of the thin down jackets are.

I've not really used a down jacket much to date but can any out door experts let me know if these thinner down jackets have any place in a kit bag?
If it was windy would the down jacket offer more for example?

 

[RogB]

Down weighs far less than syntetic for a given insulation. It depends somewhat on the jacket construction and light down jackets are probably stitched through so you have lines of zero insulation, rather than box baffles on thicker puffer style down. The advantage of synthetic is when the weather is damp - like typical low-med level UK winter conditions when its drizzle and mist. If you are above the clouds and its cold dry and crisp then down excels, but if it gets damp it clumps up and losess warmth. Microlight down under a waterproof shell works well if you dont sweat into it too much, synthetics (like your primalofty which is excellent) are much more suitable for damp, or the risk of getting damp. For basecamp sitting around a primaloft would be my preference, really cold alpine style (stable cold conditions in scottish winter would count) down and a shell just in case would be good.

 

[413x]

Down weighs far less than syntetic for a given insulation. It depends somewhat on the jacket construction and light down jackets are probably stitched through so you have lines of zero insulation, rather than box baffles on thicker puffer style down. The advantage of synthetic is when the weather is damp - like typical low-med level UK winter conditions when its drizzle and mist. If you are above the clouds and its cold dry and crisp then down excels, but if it gets damp it clumps up and losess warmth. Microlight down under a waterproof shell works well if you dont sweat into it too much, synthetics (like your primalofty which is excellent) are much more suitable for damp, or the risk of getting damp. For basecamp sitting around a primaloft would be my preference, really cold alpine style (stable cold conditions in scottish winter would count) down and a shell just in case would be good.

See this is what I was expecting.
Its a dry crisp cold still day here. And I expected the microlight to be warmer.
But it wasn't.

Its made me consider is there any need in the UK for a light weight down jacket?

Like you say its more often damp and cold here. And in this weather I take an arc'teryx atom, arc'teryx Proton or this new xenair with a waterproof shell.

Also. The microlight is a heavier jacket than the Xenair.


I seriously think I must either be wrong. And maybe I walked faster in the Xenair. Because otherwise.

Xenair (primaloft) is
-lighter
-warmer
-more ventilated
Than the microlight (down)

 

[MM-Seat]

I paddle a lot and hike occasionally.

I don’t usually consider a down jacket when looking at an insulation layer. My activities mean I’m not particularly bothered about the weight and it’s undesirable for me that down is a pain/ineffective when wet.

The other thing I’d point out is Primaloft is the best synthetic insulation you can get imo.

 

[Hades]

Generally down has two advantages over synthetic; it is usually warmer for the same amount of filling and it is usually more compressible for the same amount of filling. So if you are, for example, a hiker then you can more easily compress the down jacket in your bag so it takes up less space. For example when I travel I take only a small backpack so a lightweight down jacket is perfect to squash into the bottom of my backpack. A similar synthetic jacket would probably take up more space.

I have a couple of down jackets. I don't currently have a synthetic jacket. But if I were to buy again I would strongly consider a good synthetic one for walking in UK damp conditions. Synthetic fillings have been improving a lot recently and some of the better ones aren't far off the qualities of down now. Obviously that will depend on what synthetic fillings is used and how much of it. It will also depend on the construction of the jacket.

 

[RogB]

See this is what I was expecting.
Its a dry crisp cold still day here. And I expected the microlight to be warmer.
But it wasn't.

Its made me consider is there any need in the UK for a light weight down jacket?

Like you say its more often damp and cold here. And in this weather I take an arc'teryx atom, arc'teryx Proton or this new xenair with a waterproof shell.

Also. The microlight is a heavier jacket than the Xenair.


I seriously think I must either be wrong. And maybe I walked faster in the Xenair. Because otherwise.

Xenair (primaloft) is
-lighter
-warmer
-more ventilated
Than the microlight (down)

Rab lists the Xenair as 553g and 4/5 insulation https://rab.equipment/uk/mens-xenair-alpine-insulated-jacket and the microlight as 466g and 3/5 insulation https://rab.equipment/uk/microlight-alpine-jacket

 

[ajf]

Were you actually cold though?
my very limited experience with my down jacket is it never makes you very warm as such, you just aren’t cold.
Just a comfy temperature.
It seems to pretty much regulate regardless of temp. I’ve worn it in a heated car and not felt hot.

 

[fez]

I have a patagonia nanopuff from probably 15 years ago. Its not massively well fitted but I swear that thing has a heat generator in it. One of my go to synthetic layers. I do have down jackets but usually for just going out and about, not strenuous exercise. They are all for much colder temps as well.

Synthetic is brilliant these days and has been for a long time. I think the packability is the main advantage of down now.