Can a service provider have a monopoly?

BennyC · 29 Sep 2011 at 07:39

Hopefully somebody a little more in the know than myself might be able to help.

I'm completing on a new build house in October. I was told before buying, back in February, that the only telecoms provider for phone & internet for the first year would be 'seethelight'. I thought this was more of a commision driven sales rep than anything else.

So it's come around to trying to organise my phone & internet to be set up for or shortly after my move in date so that I don't have to go weeks without internet and phone.

I have been told by the developers rep that there are no BT phonelines going in to the development and that they've been pre-wired for fibre optic broadband. I thought this was odd and began to ponder the legality of forcing a monopoly on to the residents of this development.

Sky have told me that it has to either be a BT owned line (BT Open Reach) or a fibre optic line owned by Virgin and that there are no other line providers in the UK. So I called seethelight to ask who's lines they are using to be told by a not particularly confident operator that they have their own lines and their own exchange. I then called BT who confirmed that they didn't have lines going in to the development but that there should be nothing to stop them installing a line (survey permitting). Finally I called Virgin who confirmed that they were not covering the area at current. The development is about half a mile north of the town so installing a line I would imagine would mean installing several telepgraph poles. Though there is a station opposite which must either have a telephone line or fibre optics.

Could anybody tell me if TSP's/ISP's can buy the right to have the only supply to a specific area of land?

The only reason I've not just gone with seethelight is because I wanted a bundle from Sky. The broadband from STL will actually be much much faster but is going to cost me almost £10 extra per month (TV from Sky, phone & net from STL) than if everything were received through Sky. That and STL also want an £80 charge to hook me up, which I don't really have much room to move on except trying to get them to budge on the price.

Thanks

BennyC

Edit: Another case:

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/showthread.php/30754-See-The-Light

paradigm · 29 Sep 2011 at 07:52

Try asking some poor sole that lives in Hull and only has Kingston Communications (KCOM).

Paul. W · 29 Sep 2011 at 08:25

I would personally start the new line process with Openreach. Let them do a survey and see what they say. If there is a property nearby which is served by the copper network, it might not be that hard for them to drop the line in.

If there are additional costs involved, they will let you know beforehand and give you a breakdown of the costs. Its then simply up to you wether you want to go ahead or not.

Sky should be able to raise a New Line order. Other LLU providers can do it.

ci_newman · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:32

This is indeed becoming a more frequent practise for new-build multi-tenant properties (e.g. flats). As it actually happens, it is normally the LANDLORD that contracts the ISPs to install the service and then they take a portion of the commission generated from the site.

From a legal point of view, the phrase "tough-luck" comes to mind especially since you were told about it when you bought the place. Costs aside, you should actually get a better service anyway.

Good luck getting BT to install, I suspect that your landlord would reject the Wayleave application to install the cabling unless you are on a ground floor apartment.

[Edit] This is becoming more popular for new-build housing estates too, not just flats. The same applies for landlord / landlowner though. It's an area of business that I work in

Talon · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:34

paradigm said:
Try asking some poor sole that lives in Hull and only has Kingston Communications (KCOM).

BennyC · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:39

ci_newman said:
Good luck getting BT to install, I suspect that your landlord would reject the Wayleave application to install the cabling unless you are on a ground floor apartment.

It's a house. I'll probably end up with see the light for now as their 50MB package with phone is only £19 a month. So it is cheap, I'm just not sure if a Sky box can function without a BT or Virgin phoneline.

Once I'm in I'll get BT to look in to it further.

ci_newman · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:43

BennyC said:
It's a house. I'll probably end up with see the light for now as their 50MB package with phone is only £19 a month. So it is cheap, I'm just not sure if a Sky box can function without a BT or Virgin phoneline.

Once I'm in I'll get BT to look in to it further.

That makes your situation even worse then, as there won't be any green cabinets near you for them to install their copper cabling into.

There's a good reason why this is happening as the incumbent network operators (BT / VM) aren't signing up to install full fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) in new-build estates where it is much easier to do. As a result, smaller ISPs are popping up to fill the gap and leave BT / VM by the way-side with their archaic technology. It's painful now, but much better in the long run

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from getting 10Gb to the home now (aside from the routers being installed at either end

)

[Edit] And yes, a Sky box should be able to operate over the telephone line service that they offer by way of an ATA (usually provided)

Abraham · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:56

ci_newman said:
[Edit] This is becoming more popular for new-build housing estates too, not just flats. The same applies for landlord / landlowner though. It's an area of business that I work in

He opens the post by saying that he's bought a house, it's unlikely to be under leasehold so what landlord are you referring to? :confused:

BennyC · 29 Sep 2011 at 09:59

ci_newman said:
That makes your situation even worse then, as there won't be any green cabinets near you for them to install their copper cabling into.

There's a good reason why this is happening as the incumbent network operators (BT / VM) aren't signing up to install full fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) in new-build estates where it is much easier to do. As a result, smaller ISPs are popping up to fill the gap and leave BT / VM by the way-side with their archaic technology. It's painful now, but much better in the long run

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from getting 10Gb to the home now (aside from the routers being installed at either end )

[Edit] And yes, a Sky box should be able to operate over the telephone line service that they offer by way of an ATA (usually provided)

Thanks for your help.

So Sky should be able to connect to my Sky box via a SeeTheLight line? It doesn't to be a BT or VM phoneline?

kylew · 29 Sep 2011 at 10:09

BennyC said:
Thanks for your help.

So Sky should be able to connect to my Sky box via a SeeTheLight line? It doesn't to be a BT or VM phoneline?

The phone lines are only for pay per view stuff anyway. I've had my box disconnected from the phone socket from the day it was installed and everything worked fine. Out side of Pay Per View stuff, it's just used as a way for the installer to activate the box, but there are other ways for them to do that.

Either way though, all they need is a functioning phone line, so it won't matter who that's with.

BennyC · 29 Sep 2011 at 11:00

kylew said:
The phone lines are only for pay per view stuff anyway. I've had my box disconnected from the phone socket from the day it was installed and everything worked fine. Out side of Pay Per View stuff, it's just used as a way for the installer to activate the box, but there are other ways for them to do that.

Either way though, all they need is a functioning phone line, so it won't matter who that's with.

Thanks.

Windle · 29 Sep 2011 at 12:14

kylew said:
The phone lines are only for pay per view stuff anyway. I've had my box disconnected from the phone socket from the day it was installed and everything worked fine. Out side of Pay Per View stuff, it's just used as a way for the installer to activate the box, but there are other ways for them to do that.

Either way though, all they need is a functioning phone line, so it won't matter who that's with.

and Sky Anytime which is well worth it

neil3k · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:14

Windle said:
and Sky Anytime which is well worth it

sky anytime doesn't use the phoneline.

Abraham · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:22

neil3k said:
sky anytime doesn't use the phoneline.

maybe meant anytime plus, which requires sky bb

Windle · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:28

Abraham said:
maybe meant anytime plus, which requires sky bb

Yeah Anytime+ which lets you download ones which aren't stored on your box.

Glaucus · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:38

You don't have to sign with them, it's just they are the only ones with infrastructure.

Just like for most of the uk, the only infrastructure is BT.

So I don't see how it's a monopoly or what the issue is.

jas72 · 29 Sep 2011 at 13:48

BennyC said:
It's a house. I'll probably end up with see the light for now as their 50MB package with phone is only £19 a month. So it is cheap, I'm just not sure if a Sky box can function without a BT or Virgin phoneline.

Once I'm in I'll get BT to look in to it further.

it can perfectly. Sky no longer turn down cash because of a phone line.