Can an ISP withhold a MAC for billing purposes?
- Thread starter ic1male
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They can't withhold the MAC from you.
However you need to rememebr that if you are cancelling inside a contract period there will be an early termination fee.
If you owe them money, running away won't help - they will go after what is owed to them via debt recovery etc.
However you need to rememebr that if you are cancelling inside a contract period there will be an early termination fee.
If you owe them money, running away won't help - they will go after what is owed to them via debt recovery etc.
No, it's not that. I think I've been a bit of an arse. They tried to take payments right up until the end of March by direct debit (when they should have only taken to end of January). Silly me cancels the direct debit so they couldn't take that much but in effect I appear to have automatically put a cease request on my line by doing so. Why I just didn't let them take the overpayment and then give me a refund I don't know. Too much Xmas booze and stress I think as this all started in December. D'oh!
But I decided I would go anyway - it's only a 1-month contract.
But I decided I would go anyway - it's only a 1-month contract.
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It's a slightly grey area, I know we have refused to give MAC codes to customers who owe us money, same as we'd refuse to transfer a domain out if they owed us money...
I'll explain a bit further what's going on. All was well until July 2007 when I contacted this guy, he is a virtual ISP and runs the whole thing by himself. I asked him about a cheaper connection as I was going away but there were still people in the house who needed the Internet.
So he took me off a BT 8Mb ADSL connection and put me on a 24Mb Tiscali LLU connection with a migration charge of £14. This never got past 8Mb and kept dropping out.
After 3 months, I'd had enough and told him I wanted to go back to my old connection so he put me back on the BT 8Mb ADSL and charged me £58.
Next thing, I get an email with a direct debit detail on listing charges up to the end of March. I cancelled the direct debit with my bank as I refused to pay all that when it was clearly wrong. What a mistake this was. According to him, his company's T+C meant that by cancelling my direct debit, I've put a cease request on my line.
He's reversed the cease by making me pay £168 for the £58 migration charge, a £10 direct debit cancellation and monthly charges til the end of March which he said he'd refund from the migration date (minus 30 days notice). This has put my line back to normal so that he can get a MAC code so I can transfer elsewhere.
It's developed into a complete pickle and in two months I've paid £240 in all. Apparently now, I have to wait for his provider (which I think is BT Wholesale) to issue a MAC to him so he can issue a MAC to me.
I'm finding all this to-ing and fro-ing really annoying as I just don't know whether is taking the P or is really at BT Wholesale's mercy himself.
So he took me off a BT 8Mb ADSL connection and put me on a 24Mb Tiscali LLU connection with a migration charge of £14. This never got past 8Mb and kept dropping out.
After 3 months, I'd had enough and told him I wanted to go back to my old connection so he put me back on the BT 8Mb ADSL and charged me £58.
Next thing, I get an email with a direct debit detail on listing charges up to the end of March. I cancelled the direct debit with my bank as I refused to pay all that when it was clearly wrong. What a mistake this was. According to him, his company's T+C meant that by cancelling my direct debit, I've put a cease request on my line.
He's reversed the cease by making me pay £168 for the £58 migration charge, a £10 direct debit cancellation and monthly charges til the end of March which he said he'd refund from the migration date (minus 30 days notice). This has put my line back to normal so that he can get a MAC code so I can transfer elsewhere.
It's developed into a complete pickle and in two months I've paid £240 in all. Apparently now, I have to wait for his provider (which I think is BT Wholesale) to issue a MAC to him so he can issue a MAC to me.
I'm finding all this to-ing and fro-ing really annoying as I just don't know whether is taking the P or is really at BT Wholesale's mercy himself.
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What is a MAC? - Migration Access Codes, generally known as MAC codes allow you to seamlessly switch broadband provider, without any break in your service. Technically, a MAC code is like a serial number used to identify your broadband connection within the local exchange. If you’re switching provider and they have this code, they can simply move your connection over to their service.
What does this mean? - This means that rather than going without the internet for three to four weeks while you wait for your new connection, your switchover will be seamless – with little or no downtime, no need for an engineer to visit and you could even save on connection fees.
How do I get one? - The handing out of MAC codes used to be discretionary, but this was deemed a restrictive practice by Ofcom. They have since introduced new legislation so that all ADSL ISPs must now provide customers with a MAC code when requested.
Restrictions - If you have an LLU or cable connection you won’t be able to use the MAC migration service to switch provider, although some ISPs are trailing LLU MACs. Instead you’ll have to wait without broadband until your new connection is up and running.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/internet/switching/switch/?itemid=309063
From Ofcom
Where the MAC process applies, and your ISP does not issue you with a MAC, or refuses to accept a MAC, you should make a formal complaint to the ISP using the company’s normal complaints process. You can also contact Ofcom in order to register your complaint with us.
Regards.
What does this mean? - This means that rather than going without the internet for three to four weeks while you wait for your new connection, your switchover will be seamless – with little or no downtime, no need for an engineer to visit and you could even save on connection fees.
How do I get one? - The handing out of MAC codes used to be discretionary, but this was deemed a restrictive practice by Ofcom. They have since introduced new legislation so that all ADSL ISPs must now provide customers with a MAC code when requested.
Restrictions - If you have an LLU or cable connection you won’t be able to use the MAC migration service to switch provider, although some ISPs are trailing LLU MACs. Instead you’ll have to wait without broadband until your new connection is up and running.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/internet/switching/switch/?itemid=309063
From Ofcom
Where the MAC process applies, and your ISP does not issue you with a MAC, or refuses to accept a MAC, you should make a formal complaint to the ISP using the company’s normal complaints process. You can also contact Ofcom in order to register your complaint with us.
Regards.
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Valid reason they can refuse to give you a MAC:
The ISP is unable to confirm the identity of the account holder by performing standard checks,
The Broadband Service contract has already been terminated,
A valid MAC has already been requested and issued by the ISP,
The ISP has already submitted a Cease Request for the Broadband Service,
The ISP is unable to obtain a MAC from the ISP whom the customer wishes to switch to.
So, if the line has been ceased by you canceling your direct debit (which would also be covered by end of contract) then they don't have to provide you anything.
Also, if the contract for your ADSL is written correctly, then your not paying an invoice or direct debit could be breach of contract, in which case the contract is terminated and they don't need to give you anything.
If you were up to date with payments when you requested the MAC then you should be OK but otherwise there are plenty of loopholes. Why is it so difficult? Because even a real ISP can't make up a migration code, they need to obtain it from BT wholesale, which means in your case that your visp is contacting the real isp who are contacting bt wholesale. BT wholesale are difficult to deal with also and are very slow to get things done.
Also, just to add to the confusion, support (at least for us) don't deal with BT wholesale regularly as new connections are ordered by service delivery. So generally MAC requests get passed back to another department before they even go to BT.
The ISP is unable to confirm the identity of the account holder by performing standard checks,
The Broadband Service contract has already been terminated,
A valid MAC has already been requested and issued by the ISP,
The ISP has already submitted a Cease Request for the Broadband Service,
The ISP is unable to obtain a MAC from the ISP whom the customer wishes to switch to.
So, if the line has been ceased by you canceling your direct debit (which would also be covered by end of contract) then they don't have to provide you anything.
Also, if the contract for your ADSL is written correctly, then your not paying an invoice or direct debit could be breach of contract, in which case the contract is terminated and they don't need to give you anything.
If you were up to date with payments when you requested the MAC then you should be OK but otherwise there are plenty of loopholes. Why is it so difficult? Because even a real ISP can't make up a migration code, they need to obtain it from BT wholesale, which means in your case that your visp is contacting the real isp who are contacting bt wholesale. BT wholesale are difficult to deal with also and are very slow to get things done.
Also, just to add to the confusion, support (at least for us) don't deal with BT wholesale regularly as new connections are ordered by service delivery. So generally MAC requests get passed back to another department before they even go to BT.
Thanks for your insights, folks.
My ISP managed to get a MAC within a couple of hours whereas it normally takes 72 he said. I take my hat off to him for that, he could have kept me dangling for the full 3 working days. So I have put my order in with Eclipse Internet and should hopefully get some money back from my old ISP when the migration is completed.
My ISP managed to get a MAC within a couple of hours whereas it normally takes 72 he said. I take my hat off to him for that, he could have kept me dangling for the full 3 working days. So I have put my order in with Eclipse Internet and should hopefully get some money back from my old ISP when the migration is completed.