Can you see anything wrong with what I'm about to do?

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 12:56

TL;DR:

We have three 200kw pumps on our roof plant room which have recently had new inverters installed. The inverters aren't responding to our building management system. The inverters, installed and commissioned by company A, aren't responding to the commands issued to them by the kit installed by company B, which in turn works in conjunction with kit installed by company C.

So, three different companies, need all three to attend at the same time. I want to send an email to all three, ie. not CC'd in, or separate emails, one email to all.

Can you see anything wrong with this?

Ta

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 12:57

Good afternoon,

We would like to request an engineer from all three of your firms at the same time to address an issue with our main chilled water plant not running in auto. Please can you all advise available dates so we can agree to meet up and resolve this issue.

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards,

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 13:28

RJC said:
Most of the time its a BMS issue, you could try them first - are they using a 4-20 ma or 0-10v signal?

It's a lot more complicated than that. Yes it's a BMS issue but we also have a SIP interface. Our Trend system is also getting on a bit and reverse engineering the strategies would take a week at least. We've already had Trend in, as well as the guy who commissioned the inverters but neither of them could figure it out so we're getting them all in at once and locking them in the plant room until it's sorted.

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 14:22

RJC said:
That will be the easier way, was this all working at some point

Are you using the inverters for starting or varying the speed depending on amount of chiller running?

Pretty much, yes. They ramp up and down depending on load and also automatically swap duties between them. It was working perfectly fine until we had a textbook case of penny pinching and getting a cheaper contractor in who promptly killed the whole plant room and is unable to get it going again.

These pumps interface with a sequencer, the Trane chiller control system, the Trend BMS and the SIP managed this fine until recently, hence why we're getting them all in to resolve it. These pumps are the primary chilled system for a £650m building stuffed with high profile investment bankers, forex brokers, lawyers and a college which charges $100k a year, so it's not really the kind of building where we can take chances and wing it.

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 18:48

LOAM said:
Do you really need to check with the internet before you organise a meeting between 3 people (4 if you are going)? What on earth will you do if they ask for a drink?

I don't need to do anything. I am however very good at what I do which is why I ask questions like this before looking like an idiot to those who wish to promote me. I can (and usually do) look like an idiot on here, so I can look like a pro in the real world

Diddums · 28 Jul 2017 at 19:50

Dunks said:
So good you need to ask the internet how to arrange a meeting tho

Ja. Told you I'm a bit dense on the best of days

Diddums · 29 Jul 2017 at 13:00

RJC said:
Sounds about right, trying save a quick buck, we have similar issue were I work - Customer gets a cheaper contracter in and screws everything up.

Not used Trend in years, not familiar with the trane system, I worked with York ISN for the past 8 years! now in the spares office you soon loose touch

The problem with our building is also its strength. Everything is so over engineered it's absolutely unreal. The entire thing is lined with a metal mesh to form a faraday cage (which is why I don't have mobile signal at work) The glass is so thick that if two people stand right next to each other but on different sides of the glass, one can't hear the other knocking on it, no matter how hard they knock. The building is so strong that we have an invacuation rather than an evacuation procedure. From entering the building to getting to our workshop, I walk through 14 doors, 8 of which are armoured, bomb proof units.

The plant is so over-specced it could probably run the buildings either side of ours too. The generators for example have the capacity to run the entire building, not just critical systems, down to the mirror lights in the toilets. These are fed by tanks large enough to sustain the building on diesel alone for 14 days. It's basically a fortress dressed as an office block.

This however is also the reason we have so many different systems all interfacing with each other, and all the head aches that go with it.

I guess this is what happens when a bank goes "build me a building, no expense spared" slap bang in the middle of the Troubles and right in the center of the square mile.

We had York chillers at BT HQ on Newgate street. Bloody things couldn't go a week without something failing (again as a result of penny pinching and getting mickey mouse firms to maintain them).

Diddums · 29 Jul 2017 at 14:30

No chance. Nothing which controls the building has an outside line.

Diddums · 29 Jul 2017 at 20:15

RJC said:
That does sound extreme, been to a few sites which have done the same!

What chillers did they have at BT - YR or YK

I don't know. All I can say is that they were 20 odd years old and were screw chillers with cooling towers on the roof. They were absolutely bulletproof until they got some crap company to maintain them using seals apparently made out of bicycle tubes.

Diddums · 29 Jul 2017 at 20:37

RJC said:
Probably YS chillers then sadly not worked on these , save on maintenance pay for it on the long run !

Do you get over to the walky talky building?

Sadly not, no. Who maintains it? For some reason I want to say Integral but I'm probably wrong.

We had a flood at BT HQ once. The whole plant room in the basement is one massive open area with all the tanks, pumps, AHUs, etc all in one massive room. It's about the size of four football pitches, biggest plant room I've ever seen. In the center of it was the chiller plant room which was sunk by about 2ft below the rest of the plant area. We had a drinking water tank in the basement which had a float valve which didn't shut off so whilst we were waiting for a replacement, we had to check the tank every 2 hours and open / shut the feed manually (which at BT took months as their procurement procedure involves convincing about 15 people that they need to spend the money). One of the guys on night shift ignored it and, well...

The guy in the photo was our chiller guy, he left his tools on site as they do, and came back the next morning to find all his kit soaked and knackered, poor guy. Our engineer was instantly suspended and was never seen again.