Man of Honour
- Joined
- 17 Feb 2003
- Posts
- 29,640
- Location
- Chelmsford
About 18 months ago, we started the application process for a first floor extension. This extends both the front bedrooms above an existing ground floor area with en-suite.
There was nothing complicated about the proposal and both town planning and building regulations were approved pretty swiftly.
The process of finding a builder proved to be much more of adieus task. We found a builder last July but the waiting list was quite long. Having obtained very impressive references we decided to wait until this February for the work to start, so seven months.
During this time, we sorted out our attic and we ordered some quality windows from SEH/BACs to be fitted during the building work. This is quite common as the builders would only have fitted a generic window. These were ready about 3 weeks ago to the builders approval.. so it’s all looking good.
Fast forward to end of January this year, the builder let me know that he was running about 3 weeks late and that work will start on the 18th March, which again wasn’t a problem. These things happen.
Last week, 14th March, the builder came round for a final inspection and to measure up for scaffolding when he noticed that that the plans advised to use the existing lintels above the ground floor. On closer inspection, he was 99% sure they were fine for supporting the current pitched roof but not an external wall and a new cable roof on top of that. So an amendment was made to the work that the current lintel would be removed and replaced with a larger one. The cost of the extra work was around £3,000 which again wasn’t a problem but eats into my contingency money I set aside.
That night, I had a look at the plans myself and started questioning the pillars on both the front left and right of the house which were to support the proposed Lintels. Surely these were big enough to support the extra weight? I phoned the builder the next day and he agreed that I raised a valid point which was rather a heart stopping moment as this meant the current first floor may not be insufficient to support the extension.
Both the builder and I spoke to the architect that morning who said that the structural engineer approved the weights and any bearings and were subsequently approved by the council. The structural engineer based his calculation on the figures provided by the building plans and did not make a site visit. The engineer was appointed by the architect, not I.
Looking at the plans however, there is no ground floor elevations plans, no mention of the pillars nor any sizes. So my question to the engineer was:
1. Where did you get the information to make you calculations and approval if there were no sizes quoted on the plans?
2. If there weren’t any sizes, did you not think to query the problem or at least make a site visit to confirm your calculations?
He didn’t really answer these questions only saying he didn’t need to make a site visit and that the calculations were based on the plans and were factual. I disagreed. I think it’s been based on assumption.
Remember this is all a few days before work is due to start.
On to the Saturday and the builder came round with a structure engineer for a second opinion to decide if we could proceed or not. After about an hour, both concluded that that pillar wasn’t adequate to not only take the load of the lintel but the load of an external wall and a new gable.
The engineer was bemused and disgusted that the engineer missed something so obvious, and failed to make a site visit. He was more concerned that even the council missed the oversight.
The only way forward was to rebuild the pillar and footing of the existing first floor building which would double the cost of the extension and the time to build. This was too impractical and everyone agreed.
So unfortunately, the job was cancelled. I’ve spent a fortunate on planning, re-mortgage costs, windows that I can’t now use and we have removed most of the flooring and carpets in preparation. We were all ready as you’d expect us to be on the basis this was already approved.
I’m grateful the builder spotted this sooner rather than 2 weeks into the building work. Fortunately he had a job he could bring forward but it leaves me thinking, was the structural engineer negligent? I'm going to get legal advice next week.
There was nothing complicated about the proposal and both town planning and building regulations were approved pretty swiftly.
The process of finding a builder proved to be much more of adieus task. We found a builder last July but the waiting list was quite long. Having obtained very impressive references we decided to wait until this February for the work to start, so seven months.
During this time, we sorted out our attic and we ordered some quality windows from SEH/BACs to be fitted during the building work. This is quite common as the builders would only have fitted a generic window. These were ready about 3 weeks ago to the builders approval.. so it’s all looking good.
Fast forward to end of January this year, the builder let me know that he was running about 3 weeks late and that work will start on the 18th March, which again wasn’t a problem. These things happen.
Last week, 14th March, the builder came round for a final inspection and to measure up for scaffolding when he noticed that that the plans advised to use the existing lintels above the ground floor. On closer inspection, he was 99% sure they were fine for supporting the current pitched roof but not an external wall and a new cable roof on top of that. So an amendment was made to the work that the current lintel would be removed and replaced with a larger one. The cost of the extra work was around £3,000 which again wasn’t a problem but eats into my contingency money I set aside.
That night, I had a look at the plans myself and started questioning the pillars on both the front left and right of the house which were to support the proposed Lintels. Surely these were big enough to support the extra weight? I phoned the builder the next day and he agreed that I raised a valid point which was rather a heart stopping moment as this meant the current first floor may not be insufficient to support the extension.
Both the builder and I spoke to the architect that morning who said that the structural engineer approved the weights and any bearings and were subsequently approved by the council. The structural engineer based his calculation on the figures provided by the building plans and did not make a site visit. The engineer was appointed by the architect, not I.
Looking at the plans however, there is no ground floor elevations plans, no mention of the pillars nor any sizes. So my question to the engineer was:
1. Where did you get the information to make you calculations and approval if there were no sizes quoted on the plans?
2. If there weren’t any sizes, did you not think to query the problem or at least make a site visit to confirm your calculations?
He didn’t really answer these questions only saying he didn’t need to make a site visit and that the calculations were based on the plans and were factual. I disagreed. I think it’s been based on assumption.
Remember this is all a few days before work is due to start.
On to the Saturday and the builder came round with a structure engineer for a second opinion to decide if we could proceed or not. After about an hour, both concluded that that pillar wasn’t adequate to not only take the load of the lintel but the load of an external wall and a new gable.
The engineer was bemused and disgusted that the engineer missed something so obvious, and failed to make a site visit. He was more concerned that even the council missed the oversight.
The only way forward was to rebuild the pillar and footing of the existing first floor building which would double the cost of the extension and the time to build. This was too impractical and everyone agreed.
So unfortunately, the job was cancelled. I’ve spent a fortunate on planning, re-mortgage costs, windows that I can’t now use and we have removed most of the flooring and carpets in preparation. We were all ready as you’d expect us to be on the basis this was already approved.
I’m grateful the builder spotted this sooner rather than 2 weeks into the building work. Fortunately he had a job he could bring forward but it leaves me thinking, was the structural engineer negligent? I'm going to get legal advice next week.
I have all this to come too myself once I save some money up for building work.
