Car insurance and no claims bonus - advice please.

parxuk

parxuk

parxuk

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18 Apr 2008
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Location
Bristol
I think i've made a complete idiot mistake with regards to car insurance and no claims bonus and need some advice on possible options, and what to do next.

It just dawned on me today after a conversation with colleagues in work, that no claims discount only belong to the policy holder, and can only be used on one car. Not as i had thought, that for as long as you had had consecutive

insurance, and no accidents (as an individual) you were gaining NCB's.

Situation is that for years the wife and i had our own seperate insurance cover and NCB, but then about 5 years ago i went for a multi-car policy. When that finished after a year i found it cheaper to insure our 2 cars seperatly, but the

wife isnt one for paperwork/paying the bills so i sorted them both out.

As i was the one filling in the forms/answering the questions and paying the bills i put myself as policy holder on both cars and the wife as a named driver. When asked about no claims bonus i used my years gained, as i have never had an

accident, and i thought that was how it worked.

Fast forward to today when i am looking at renewing the 2 insurance policies and i now find that i have been inadvertantly lying about my NCB as you can only use it on 1 car.

Equally annoying is that my wife had lots of years NCB, but that has all lapsed as the policies have been in my name for at least the last 3 years.

It looks like i am going to have to fork out lots of money on one of the policies this year as we will have to start from scratch with 0 NCB.

Even worse i think im correct in saying my current insurance may be invalid as i have used my NCB on the 2 policies.

Is this correct and what are my options next? the renewal is in 12 days. Im guessing if i contact my insurance company(s) they will ask for 11 months backdated payment for the NCB discount they gave me.

I notice that some insurance companies offer multicar discounts and can mirror NCBs on the 2 cars. Is this worth thinking about?

Thanks in advance
 
What specifically does it say on the two policy renewals you have now?

If you have two bits of paper stating x years no claims each, just use them and carry on your merry way
 
Funny this topic has been mentioned as we just renewed today.

How it works is
The main policy holder claims the NCB each year, the named driver on policy gets nothing.
My missus is the main policy holder and I am a named driver on policy.
She can drive another car under 3rd party fire and theft, I cannot.
She earns NCB, I don't.

You are fine as you had single car insurance then went multicar as you as the main policy holder. Using your previous NCB discount from your single car policy.
Your wife on the other hand, had lost all hers in year 2 of the multicar insurance.

Unfair I know but that's how it goes. Some insurance companies will allow named drivers to build NCB but you have to stay with same company for a good few years for it to work.

Quick edit you can use your NCB on as many cars as you want providing they are in your name.
 
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Whatever it now states on your renewal documents is now gospel so work with that.

Whist it may not be cheaper in the short term, you are best putting you down as the primary driver on your car and the Mrs as the primary on hers. Regardless of who the main policy holder is on the overall policy, the primary drivers accrue their own NCD.

In a multicar scenario if you are the primary driver on both cars then the NCD cannot be used on both, but if you were to insure the cars with separate companies then you can (technically not right but not enforceable) use it on both vehicles.

Some insurers allow NCD that a named driver has (gained whilst being the primary) to count for the car, so again in a multicar scenario where you are the primary on both cars, your NCD could count for car 1 and the Mrs's for car 2.

Interestingly though, in a multicar scenario the system should have determined that you hold the NCD and shouldn't have applied the discounts to both cars. It should have given you the option of specifying which car you want it to apply on, but if it didn't then it doesn't sound like you have done anything wrong (flaw in their system).


Suffice to say, I hope you are not insured by any of the brands owned/underwritten by the company I work with, and if you are please send me your policy number so I can give my mates in Claims and Counter Fraud a heads up ;) :p
 
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Rodenal

The policy renewals state that i have 19 years NCB on one policy (my car), and 9 years NCB on the policy for my wifes car (9 years because i was quoting her NCB). Are you saying that now they have that on their record i should just leave it like that? I dont think i can as from what ive been told the NCB belongs to me as the policy holder and i can only use NCB on one car.

Itchy/Danger Pheonix

I've only been looking into this today so am happy to be proved wrong, but EVERYTHING i have researched tonight has stated that 1 persons NCB can only be used on 1 car, so the fact ive used it on 2 policies leaves me in a bad position.

I have spoken to one of the insurance companies tonight and am able to add the 2nd car to my policy. Provided i am the registered keeper/main driver then they will mirror the NCB on the 2 vehicles. The wife as a named driver will also begin to accrue NCB for the future.

I am guessing my best bet is not to wait the 12 days until the existing policies end, but to cancel the 2nd cars policy tomorrow and immediately move it on to a multicar policy.

What d'ya think?

Thanks
 
I had this situation earlier, (in that a named driver has not had their own policy for 3 years).

Rang up admiral, they credited them on a new policy with 7 years NCB (not protectable for the first year) (the actual ncb was like 10+ but the max they could apply as a new policy was 7)

Job done
 
Iamzod said:
NCD is often transferrable between Spouses / Partners, I did it this year with ours.
Click to expand...

But you still only have one set unless it has been explicitly matched.

With regards to the OP, if you want to get away with it then switch insurers for one of the policies.

It's only your current insurer who could work out that you have duplicated your NCD. In the worst case scenario they ask for proof of NCD you wouldn't be able to provide that (other than their own documents).

However, another insurer would be none the wiser as you could reasonably show 2 documents providing separate NCD.

Most insurers will also let you transfer your NCD to your spouse, so she can get her NCD back.
 
With the documentation you have, I would insure the cars with two separate companies (check that they are underwritten by different companies, ie. do not go with Churchill and Sainsburys because they are both with UKI). With both you are the main policy holder and you use the 19 years (unlikely that anything more than 9 will actually be effective anyway).

Proof may be asked for and you just provide your renewal documents to show the 19 years.
 
parxuk said:
Rodenal

The policy renewals state that i have 19 years NCB on one policy (my car), and 9 years NCB on the policy for my wifes car (9 years because i was quoting her NCB). Are you saying that now they have that on their record i should just leave it like that? I dont think i can as from what ive been told the NCB belongs to me as the policy holder and i can only use NCB on one car.

Itchy/Danger Pheonix

I've only been looking into this today so am happy to be proved wrong, but EVERYTHING i have researched tonight has stated that 1 persons NCB can only be used on 1 car, so the fact ive used it on 2 policies leaves me in a bad position.

I have spoken to one of the insurance companies tonight and am able to add the 2nd car to my policy. Provided i am the registered keeper/main driver then they will mirror the NCB on the 2 vehicles. The wife as a named driver will also begin to accrue NCB for the future.

I am guessing my best bet is not to wait the 12 days until the existing policies end, but to cancel the 2nd cars policy tomorrow and immediately move it on to a multicar policy.

What d'ya think?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You are correct. You can only use one set of NCD on one car. Not the same discount on every car you own.

It does look like your wife has lost her bonus, but you have 2 sets now. I personally wouldn't be telling your insurer what happened, and snatch the 2 sets of NCD, and move insurer. You could tell your insurer, but they may well just take away the second set, and claim fraud.

Between myself and my wife we have 3 sets of NCD, and only 2 cars. So one of the cars alternates the policy between myself and my wife every year, to keep them both going, until we get a third car again. If we ever do.

When you do move, you can ask if the new insurer might be able to mirror your NCD for a policy for your wife, stating that she had been named driver the whole time on your policy. They may help, they may not. It might be worth trying many different insurers to see if any of them can help. You will likely have to move both policies to them. If that works, you will then have 2 sets in your name, and one in the wife's. So you then have the opportunity to keep 3 sets on the go, like I do.
 
Thanks for the replies, but i must be a thick as a whale omelette, because i just dont quite get it.

I have 2 x policies with 2 different companies. Its my name on both policies and using my NCB on both (or is the NCB on the car not the individual).

If i had an accident wouldnt hey just check my name against a database and see that i had used my NCB on 2 car policies, or is that just not how it works?

Sorry for the daft questions, but just having difficulty getting my head around this, after 20 years of thinking it worked in a different way.
 
parxuk said:
Thanks for the replies, but i must be a thick as a whale omelette, because i just dont quite get it.

I have 2 x policies with 2 different companies. Its my name on both policies and using my NCB on both (or is the NCB on the car not the individual).

If i had an accident wouldnt hey just check my name against a database and see that i had used my NCB on 2 car policies, or is that just not how it works?

Sorry for the daft questions, but just having difficulty getting my head around this, after 20 years of thinking it worked in a different way.
Click to expand...

Oh, that wasn't very clear in your original post. The NCD is only really used by the pricing engine and not verified other than by asking you to send documentation in from any previous insurer proving it.

There is no database which holds everyone's information so insurer A cannot just go and check what you have with insurer B. There are systems which insurers send data to and this runs a variety of algorithms to calculate the likelihood of fraud (ie. if a mobile number is associated to two different people or if the same car has been in numerous accidents and claims were logged with different insurers).

Technically it falls under the misrepresentation category and if discovered is grounds to invalidate your policy and/or not pay out on a claim. However, if discovered they will probably just ask you to pay the premium difference. Anyways, I suggest looking at multicar policies with which you can cover both cars under one. Some insurers will price it appropriately given that you are the primary on both cars.
 
Danger Phoenix

I've certainly confused myself, and i think everyone else, and may have given some duff information earlier.

Update on the situation:

So policy with company A on my main car says i have 19 years NCB.
Policy with company B on 2nd car shows 9 years (i think because the insurance company doesnt recognise anything over 9 years). This is what the renewal letters state.

So i have 2 different policies on 2 different cars with 2 different insurance companies. Is this actually OK as i have earned 2 different lots of NCB

Have i then not done anything wrong and i (as an individual) can have 2 different lots of NCB on 2 different cars.

I think i was assuming it went against the individual and you could only have 1 lot of NCB, but now im thinking it is per car/policy?
 
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itchy said:
Quick edit you can use your NCB on as many cars as you want providing they are in your name.
Click to expand...

Err No, your NCB can only be used against one car at a time, though some companies may 'mirror it' on a multi car policy (ie: give you the same amount as an introductory bonus) and then you build up more than one set of NCB

Do you actually give any correct advice on these forums? :confused:
 
parxuk said:
Danger Phoenix

I've certainly confused myself, and i think everyone else, and may have given some duff information earlier.

Update on the situation:

So policy with company A on my main car says i have 19 years NCB.
Policy with company B on 2nd car shows 9 years (i think because the insurance company doesnt recognise anything over 9 years). This is what the renewal letters state.

So i have 2 different policies on 2 different cars with 2 different insurance companies. Is this actually OK as i have earned 2 different lots of NCB

Have i then not done anything wrong and i (as an individual) can have 2 different lots of NCB on 2 different cars.

I think i was assuming it went against the individual and you could only have 1 lot of NCB, but now im thinking it is per car/policy?
Click to expand...

NCD is per person and therefore when applied correctly you should never be in a situation where you end up with varying years in your own name.

To be honest with you, having worked in insurance for a number of years and currently working at one of the largest insurers in the UK, NCD is a funny one. The percentage discount you get is not fixed and varies per individual and the circumstances. A new regulation has recently come in where insurers have to disclose the mean average discount a customer receives per year of NCD they have (all this is irrelevant to you and I am just stating it for general knowledge and the benefit of others).

I would suggest you forget about the companies you are currently with, and focus on the document which states you have 19 years NCD. The majority of companies do not recognise anything above 9 years because it just doesn't fit in their pricing model, so whether it is 9 or 19 makes little to no difference.

Using the 19 though, get quotes for multicar policies and look to put both vehicles under one. Are you actually the primary driver of both vehicles or is one your main car and the other your Mrs's? I am assuming it it the latter, so do quotes on that basis.

One thing you could attempt to do is contact the second company and mention that the 9 years is actually the Mrs's NCD rather than yours. Some companies (I know we do) allow NCD that named drivers have (from their own policies) apply to vehicles (ie yours goes to car 1 and yours Mrs's goes to car 2 even though you are the primary on both). It could backfire and they don't buy your ignorance and try and charge you the premium difference, but they could also just correct their records and send you new documentation which states that the NCD belongs to the Mrs.


With this being a public domain I have to be wary of what I can and cannot say, so if you want to discuss further or want me to speak to some of our underwriters regarding this "hypothetical situation" then drop me an email (see Trust for details).
 
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I have always owned and insured two cars in my own name on two separate policies. I have earned NCD on each policy separately and have always insured my cars this way. If this is wrong, then I've been doing it "wrong" for over a decade and always been open with insurance companies. So one policy for example is at say 8 years NCD and the other on say 11.
 
It is per person, yes. But whenever I am asked about it, I am specifically asked if any discount is currently used on another vehicle. What you are saying, Danger Phoenix, about only needing one NCD, that can be applied to all vehicles I own, does not ring true with my experience of this aspect of motor insurance. Hence why I have 2 sets, one at 9 years and another at 6 years.
 
Just had a web chat with 1 of my insurance companies, which went like this:
.................................................. .................................................
You: i want to fully understand how NCD works please
Ismaeel: Yes...
You: I currently own 2 cars and have 2 separate insurance policies. I have NCD on both. Is this correct or can a person only have 1 lot of NCB?
Ismaeel: Yes, this is correct. You see each car will earn there own no claim discount.
Ismaeel: However, if you have one car and you bought a new car you will not be able to use your no claims on both cars at the same time. If this makes any sense.
You: So the NCD is against the car/policy not an individual? If i had 5 cars and 5 policies i could earn 5 NCDs?
Ismaeel: Yes, for each car you would earn no claims on.
.................................................. .................................................. ..
So im pretty sure now that i am above board with what im doing (and have been doing)

Interesting though that on this post and the couple of other forums where i asked the same question, there is a lot of uncertainty and different answers. You would think it would be easier
 
Agree with this, one person can have multiple set's of no claims as long as they have been earned on different policies.

E.g. two cars on separate policies will each earn a years no claims.
 
There is only uncertainty because there are people who don't know what they are talking about.

Strictly though, you did lose your wife's NCD. At this point you have no incentive to come clean as you have 2 sets of proof.
 
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