Car ownership/insurance if the person owning/insuring is elderly and will never drive/no licence: Updated with an example car to vet

Bubo

Bubo

Bubo

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My dad is old. We now need a vehicle with wheelchair access to get him around and are on the lookout at the usual places. But one thing I am not 100% sure about is how we go about owning and insuring the vehicle. My dad's licence expired last year. If we were to apply for a new license and answer the health and eyesight question truthfully then I very much doubt he would be given a renewed licence as per the requirement to renew every 3 years once you hit 70, so him having a current licence is a definite non starter. Even getting him to a post office for the photo would be a mission, or even an optician for an eye test.

So working on the basis of him not having a driving licence, is there any way for him to either own or keep the vehicle such that he can be the main insurer, with everyone who needs to drive it to ferry him about be on the policy as named drivers? Or can he simply own/keep the vehicle without him insuring it at all, and for each of us to drive it on our insurance with the owners permission? Don't know if SORN would be a factor in this scenario. Or will it be a case that one of us will have to be the main insurer without my dad being involved at all, other than maybe being the owner. Or if one of us has to technically own it that part wouldn't be a problem. To be clear, he will never drive again.

Googling suggests no, you can't insure a vehicle if you don't have a licence, but as usual there are a few saying "What? Of course you can". So hopefully OcUK can be the ultimate arbiter on this.
 
I think the best thing to do is decide who is going to drive the car the most and put them as main driver (with your dad as owner/registered keeper) and then ensure the insurance also has an any other secondary driver clause in place, so third parties with permission can drive and be covered.

I also believe your own insurance that would cover you for third party on another vehicle requires that vehicle to be independently insured already.
 
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Your Dad absolutely shouldn't be the policy holder, that would be considered fronting and he'd be in big trouble if you ever had an accident and tried to claim on the insurance since he doesn't actually have a license in the first place.

As others have said, insure one of the main drivers and simply list that you aren't the registered keeper. Bonus points, they will earn a second set of NCD :D
 
Not looked in to mobility allowance in any great depth but from what I have heard to can end up with a net loss as you might have to give up other benefits. Any precise details on the mobility allowance route also welcomed here.
 
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If there is insurance on the vehicle then others with DOC on their insurance (note it is less common on a policy these days than it used to be so don't assume it) may be covered 3rd party to drive it but some insurers have tighter restrictions on it these days such as having to be a "similar" vehicle to the one they have insured and/or may not cover certain classes of vehicle such as vans Vs cars or certain classes of vehicles adapted for disability use.

It would have to be kept at someone else's address but also potential to put it on multi-cover - if someone has Admiral insurance potentially can get up to 40% off the first year doing that depending on how the numbers work out and/or promotions available.
 
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Bubo said:
Not looked in to mobility allowance in any great depth but from what I have heard to can end up with a net loss as you might have to give up other benefits. Any precise details on the mobility allowance route also welcomed here.
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The "Mobility allowance" is part of PIP these days, AFAIK it isn't affected by any other benefits nor does it affect them with the exception of other disability ones (IE the older DLA, or possibly the one from the armed forces if you were disabled in service).
If you had the mobility component of either PIP or DLA you could use it towards a Motability vehicle which would cover the insurance on the vehicle as well as the lease cost, but you'd potentially be looking at a large upfront (non refundable) payment towards the vehicle*.

However unless things have changed I believe you cannot start a new claim for it if you are over 65.

As others have said it should be possible to get insurance for the vehicle with the main driver potentially being different to registered keeper/owner but you have to be upfront with the insurance company and it may require a broker as it's not quite the normal way it works (I can't remember who motability use as their insurer, but I think they used to be one of the best for this sort of situation specifically because they were used to it with motability).


*One of the stupid things that happened due to people complaining about the "luxury cars" motability were "giving away" was IIRC they limited the range of vehicles to exclude any over a certain value, despite the fact they actually cost the scheme less because of the higher upfront payment and higher resale value compared to say an Astra.
 
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Thanks for all info. The other slight factor in this is that my sister also could benefit from access to a wheelchair car and from what I can gather any car sourced via Motability can only be used to the benefit of one named person. So even though they live together only one of them could, in theory, benefit from it, i.e. use it to be driven around in, unless they are both in the car at the same time I guess, She is under 65 so she could get it, but my dad is way older. My nephew who is her son has looked into this for her, but from what he said you are giving up some of you pip money, which by the way you describe it it does sound like you get a lot for your money, brand new car, insurance, maintenance etc, but over time this could eventually exceed the cost of a second hand runabout and ongoing insurance. It is worth looking in to more though.
 
Bubo said:
Thanks for all info. The other slight factor in this is that my sister also could benefit from access to a wheelchair car and from what I can gather any car sourced via Motability can only be used to the benefit of one named person. So even though they live together only one of them could, in theory, benefit from it, i.e. use it to be driven around in, unless they are both in the car at the same time I guess, She is under 65 so she could get it, but my dad is way older. My nephew who is her son has looked into this for her, but from what he said you are giving up some of you pip money, which by the way you describe it it does sound like you get a lot for your money, brand new car, insurance, maintenance etc, but over time this could eventually exceed the cost of a second hand runabout and ongoing insurance. It is worth looking in to more though.
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It sounds like you'd be getting a mobility allowance for a very valid reason. I'm not sure than anyone is going to follow you around with a clipboard unless you're passing a blue badge around your mates or using the van for tip runs.
 
I don't suppose any passing car expert can have a look at this and say something like "Wow, what and absolute bargain! In fact, I'm having that! <snipe>" or "Hah, what an absolute rip off that is!"

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2013 Citron xtr Belingo 1600 HDI

Mobility access comes with ramp. Steps that come out with a touch of a button excellent engine been serviced regularly drives perfect only selling as my parents can no longer drive. Only had 1 owner
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Bubo said:
Thanks for all info. The other slight factor in this is that my sister also could benefit from access to a wheelchair car and from what I can gather any car sourced via Motability can only be used to the benefit of one named person. So even though they live together only one of them could, in theory, benefit from it, i.e. use it to be driven around in, unless they are both in the car at the same time I guess, She is under 65 so she could get it, but my dad is way older. My nephew who is her son has looked into this for her, but from what he said you are giving up some of you pip money, which by the way you describe it it does sound like you get a lot for your money, brand new car, insurance, maintenance etc, but over time this could eventually exceed the cost of a second hand runabout and ongoing insurance. It is worth looking in to more though.
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If your sister is under 65 and meets the criteria for PIP's mobilty component I would strongly recommend she tries for it* (and doesn't give up when they do the automatic "no" initially), as getting the mobility component also acts as a passport for other things such as the blue badge, a CEA card (if she goes to the cinema and needs assistance she can take someone FOC), bus pass (depending on council), rail card etc.
In many ways if money isn't an issue, the secondary benefits from mobility are at least as important, for example the blue badge makes life significantly easier.

Re using the mobility car for the "benefit of the named person", IIRC that used to be taken to mean as for the benefit of them in their normal life, and allowed for things like getting household shopping but the car had to be available for their use as the priority, so it was for the benefit of the person but that person didn't have to be in the car every time. I'm not sure of the exact criteria now, as I know they really cracked down on it and narrowed the focus, largely due to media nonsense and a fairly low level of abuse that was already covered by the old criteria.
Unlike blue badges where you're only allowed to use it if the person named on it is using the vehicle (except for some specific cases such as charity vehicles, blue badges are tied to the person not the vehicle).

I'm not sure if you've mentioned it, but you can apply for a blue badge without mobility allowance, but it requires entering more detail/filling in more of the form (if you get mobility it basically asks for proof and skips most of the questions) and may take longer to process, your father may be able to apply for it and will if i'm reading your posts correctly probably benefit from it, check the criteria and look into applying if he's not already got one :)


*She would need to remember when answering any question to add "can I do this safely, as required and repeatedly" (I think that's the phrasing), as if no then it's a no to the question or at least an "it varies" with explanation. Also that they tend to say "no" almost by reflex and then usually overturn if it's genuine and you appeal so it gets to the people that actually understand what is being said and apply the legal definitions.
 
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ci_newman said:
Your Dad absolutely shouldn't be the policy holder, that would be considered fronting and he'd be in big trouble if you ever had an accident and tried to claim on the insurance since he doesn't actually have a license in the first place.

As others have said, insure one of the main drivers and simply list that you aren't the registered keeper. Bonus points, they will earn a second set of NCD :D
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His dad could definitely be the policy holder as long as main driver is stated to be someone else.
 
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