Career Change - Thoughts?

Nitefly · 1 Oct 2019 at 21:05

Hello

Contemplating a career change. I'm a (property) lawyer and whilst the fundamentals of the job are great, as are my colleagues generally, I do find the job heavily bogged down with the dehumanising and absurd culture of 'do it now', which ruins everything and makes everyone miserable. The entire day, every day, is spent 'saving the world' and being treated like a disappointment. Those 10 years older than me typically work 6 day weeks (even when officially on 4 day weeks) and cancel their holiday to make sure deals go over the line. It's just gross. An exploitation of the altruistic.

I'm well paid which makes it difficult to leave, especially as I'm hoping to start a family in the next couple of years, but I also don't really want to die of a heart attack in my 40s having never really spent anytime with my children. Ultimately it feels like it's just too much... energy. If I put all that energy into something else, holy moly, the planet could even be renamed 'Nitefly', perhaps? That's a joke at my own arrogance. A half-joke.

So, hoping to find a career that doesn't have a stupid, 'go kill yourself / ruin your life' culture. Pay cut acceptable. Otherwise a blank canvas and reaching out for ideas. Starting my own business would be ideal... if I had any good ideas.

I'm going to be mulling over this for some time so, really, any thoughts from the collective would be appreciated. Thanks.

Rroff · 1 Oct 2019 at 21:08

While I don't advocate doing a **** job, incompetence or complacency - stop caring so much (easier said than done), take the money and make moving on a longer term plan.

Nitefly · 1 Oct 2019 at 21:14

Rroff said:
While I don't advocate doing a **** job, incompetence or complacency - stop caring so much (easier said than done), take the money and make moving on a longer term plan.

Yes, this is what I am currently trying to do. But it's so hard.

Drumroll · 1 Oct 2019 at 23:19

Some people simply can't just face work as just work, and most of the employers can see it and make sure to suck until the last drop of blood.
A good/excellent salary is desirable, but sure can't be the only positive thing keeping you there.
I wouldn't say a drastic career change, but think careful, best during few days off, and if doing so, better now than when children and bigger responsibilities involved.

dowie · 1 Oct 2019 at 23:23

Had some suggestions here:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32513992/

Since you're on a technical forum - do you have an interest/background in tech etc.. too? Could you join an early stage LawTech startup? Or even co-found one? Whats your maths background like - did you study it to A-Level standard or drop it after GCSEs?

You could take some online ML courses - the Andrew Ng course on coursera is accessible to smart non-STEM grads as are some deep learning tutorials. To get an overview this stuff only needs minimal programming skills (basics of Matlab/octave or python) and basic maths (chain rule from A-Level and some linear algebra are sufficient for getting a grasp of the basics).

Not many Lawyers know much about ML/data science but various people are trying to apply ML to a whole load of areas including law. I'm not suggesting a career change to become an ML Engineer or Data Scientist (that would generally require a bit more than a couple of MOOCs) but if you were to become a lawyer with a good overview of the field then you might be a useful addition to a relevant startup.... then your efforts at work would go towards potentially making yourself rich rather than other people. It might need some effort initially and some interest in the field but it is a possibility and one that I'd wager plenty of lawyers wouldn't really consider.

Liefrich · 2 Oct 2019 at 13:10

Nitefly said:
Hello

Contemplating a career change. I'm a (property) lawyer and whilst the fundamentals of the job are great, as are my colleagues generally, I do find the job heavily bogged down with the dehumanising and absurd culture of 'do it now', which ruins everything and makes everyone miserable. The entire day, every day, is spent 'saving the world' and being treated like a disappointment. Those 10 years older than me typically work 6 day weeks (even when officially on 4 day weeks) and cancel their holiday to make sure deals go over the line. It's just gross. An exploitation of the altruistic.

I'm well paid which makes it difficult to leave, especially as I'm hoping to start a family in the next couple of years, but I also don't really want to die of a heart attack in my 40s having never really spent anytime with my children. Ultimately it feels like it's just too much... energy. If I put all that energy into something else, holy moly, the planet could even be renamed 'Nitefly', perhaps? That's a joke at my own arrogance. A half-joke.

So, hoping to find a career that doesn't have a stupid, 'go kill yourself / ruin your life' culture. Pay cut acceptable. Otherwise a blank canvas and reaching out for ideas. Starting my own business would be ideal... if I had any good ideas.

I'm going to be mulling over this for some time so, really, any thoughts from the collective would be appreciated. Thanks.

Have you thought of joining a smaller firm? I imagine you work for a relatively “prestigious” large regional firm, but this doesn’t have to be all and end all of being a solicitor (which may sound sacrilegious to eager graduates on their LPC)

I currently work in a litigation firm of just 6 solicitors and 1 paralegal (no other support staff) and the culture is so much better than the bigger firms I have worked in. Obviously there is still client pressure, but my billing target is very reasonable (circa 5 hours per day), no-one works past 17:30 and my remuneration is still decent in comparison to my peers. I won’t ever be “rich” but I am comfortable and would not want to sacrifice my hobbies and family life to earn a six-figure salary.

I appreciate this may not be suitable for all areas of law, but it may be worth looking to see if you can find a role which puts less pressure on you. Alternatively, I hear good things about working in-house and I imagine that you would be an extremely attractive candidate given your current role.

Personally speaking; in hindsight I feel being a solicitor is not really what I was lead to believe (coming from a non-university educated family where there are only two options: medicine and law) and if I had my time again I would certainly reassess my early career choices. That said, being a solicitor is a moderately interesting job and does allow you develop skills that can open doors to other industries.

Anyhow, best of luck!

Edrof · 2 Oct 2019 at 14:14

My friend, as someone who has nearly kicked the bucket fairly recently I would advise you to look for what makes you happy and to pursue it if you can. That, in itself, might take a lot of searching.

Raymond Lin · 2 Oct 2019 at 14:22

I would think that is more where you work, as opposed to the career.

When I was in a highstreet law firm, oner of the partners used to strolls in at 9, got through his mail, do the to do for the day and when all the correspondences are done, he goes home. Whether that is 3pm or 1pm. Sometimes we have to call him about something after he’s gone and he would be walking his dog in the cotswolds by 4pm.

One other Partner used to take every Wednesday afternoon off to play golf.

Then when that department was TUPE into the bigger firm…everything changed, even if the work is exactly the same.

TNGL · 2 Oct 2019 at 18:30

Would it be too late for you to switch out of property law to an area of practice that is less intense?

Kreeeee · 2 Oct 2019 at 18:56

It's a bit of a "stars could be aligning" moment, but I have sent you a trust message Nitefly.

I'm trying to get myself into a situation where I earn my income passively, and we might be looking to go in the same direction.

Selekt0r · 2 Oct 2019 at 19:23

Nitefly said:
Starting my own business would be ideal...

Kreeeee said:
I'm trying to get myself into a situation where I earn my income passively, and we might be looking to go in the same direction.

Whilst there are obviously some businesses/start-ups which become successful and put their owner in a comfortable passive-income or low-stress working situation, these are massively outnumbered by the small businesses or self-employed who are working themselves to the bone with no paid holiday, sick-leave etc.

dowie · 2 Oct 2019 at 19:57

Selekt0r said:
Whilst there are obviously some businesses/start-ups which become successful and put their owner in a comfortable passive-income or low-stress working situation, these are massively outnumbered by the small businesses or self-employed who are working themselves to the bone with no paid holiday, sick-leave etc.

A start up is a bit of a different ball game to running a small business or being self employed, he doesn't have to be a co-founder per say, he could just be an early employee and still gets a chunk of equity/is workings own benefit too rather than just making others richer.

Selekt0r · 2 Oct 2019 at 20:20

dowie said:
A start up is a bit of a different ball game to running a small business or being self employed, he doesn't have to be a co-founder per say, he could just be an early employee and still gets a chunk of equity/is workings own benefit too rather than just making others richer.

Very true, however in my experience (albeit 2nd-hand rather than personal) all of these categories of 'employment' suffer from a tendency towards over-work/stress even compared to relatively high pressure 'regular' employment.

dowie · 2 Oct 2019 at 20:39

Selekt0r said:
Very true, however in my experience (albeit 2nd-hand rather than personal) all of these categories of 'employment' suffer from a tendency towards over-work/stress even compared to relatively high pressure 'regular' employment.

Hopefully he could be insulated from it to some extent - like assuming a worst case scenario of some start up populated by a bunch of people in their early 20s all with very little real world experience, all prepared to work silly hours etc... someone being employed as the legal expert perhaps won't be required at their all night long hackathon etc...

JonJ678 · 4 Oct 2019 at 13:06

Skills and intellect required for law are pretty much identical to those required for software dev. Which is a much nicer job in every respect.

Nitefly · 4 Oct 2019 at 17:50

All - thanks for your responses. As you may have guessed, I am being utterly boned by work at the moment and don’t seem to have time for everything. So, again, thank you for your responses and I’ll try to respond once I get a bit of breathing space (which is unlikely to be this weekend, ffs). Doesn’t make the career search very easy tbh

Edit - weekend retained... in part!!