Career decisions

Bassmansam

Bassmansam

Bassmansam

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Joined
22 Nov 2007
Posts
4,209
Hi all

I am trying to figure out to get going properly in a programming/ database career. Background - left uni at 21 2:2 computing then have spent the first 8 years in university student records jobs so the most techy thing i did in those jobs was excel formulas.

Before the pandemic i got a job for an fe college in the MIS department, its mainly admin work but they have finally started letting me use sql(was discussed at interview). I did a course on udemy to get used to sql again and now i feel competent in that. I have just bought a python course also on udemy.

Do people think that is the right way to go? My short term goal(next 1-2 years) is to get a job paying around 35k. I am in London by the way.

edit: maybe this should be moved to the careers section
 
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With your degree and present day experience you might be best looking into a junior/intern/apprentice type role for a largeish company. Seems like this is the most common way in these days. It's experience that will build your salary propsects in this field and if you get uour head down for 2 years 35k should be the minimum you get back.

I middled about in semi-related roles until recently then after being made redundant I put myself out there on LinkedIn with a fully fleshed out profile. I had plenty of interest from recruiters and was very honest about my abilities. Attitude and willing to learn stood me above the rest but expect to do a technical test in the process. I'm technically a junior for various reasons despire having a lot of experience, just not quite in the tech stack my company require, so it's worth while starting from the "bottom" in my opinion and building up your confidence and skills on the job. Even as a junior I'm paid similar to your goal outside of London.
 
Right way to go from what perspective? You could either go for a MIS-type role building the queries and reporting, or do a more administrator type role (DBA) where you look after the SQL databases and install/tune/back them up. It really just depends what you enjoy spending your time doing, but from a job availability perspective I would say SQL is a good area to specialise in. There are also often SQL focused local meetup groups, often sponsored by Microsoft.
 
radderfire said:
Right way to go from what perspective? You could either go for a MIS-type role building the queries and reporting, or do a more administrator type role (DBA) where you look after the SQL databases and install/tune/back them up. It really just depends what you enjoy spending your time doing, but from a job availability perspective I would say SQL is a good area to specialise in. There are also often SQL focused local meetup groups, often sponsored by Microsoft.
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I like the idea of building queries and reporting so thats one goal. Theres only three of us in this MIS team, me , manager, and reporting analyst, my manager has hinted that if the analyst were to leave he thinks i could potentially do that role but i don't want to just bank everything on that. So in the meantime i will continie my SQL development and do this python course that i have bought from udemy.

Dup said:
With your degree and present day experience you might be best looking into a junior/intern/apprentice type role for a largeish company. Seems like this is the most common way in these days. It's experience that will build your salary propsects in this field and if you get uour head down for 2 years 35k should be the minimum you get back.

I middled about in semi-related roles until recently then after being made redundant I put myself out there on LinkedIn with a fully fleshed out profile. I had plenty of interest from recruiters and was very honest about my abilities. Attitude and willing to learn stood me above the rest but expect to do a technical test in the process. I'm technically a junior for various reasons despire having a lot of experience, just not quite in the tech stack my company require, so it's worth while starting from the "bottom" in my opinion and building up your confidence and skills on the job. Even as a junior I'm paid similar to your goal outside of London.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are where i want to be in the next year or so. I think once I have completed this python course I will make a website scraping data from websites i'm interested in to show what I have learned to show to potential employers.
 
*bump*

hi guys

I am now about 1/4 of the way through my udemy python course. I am already starting to think what i should build once i have finished to showcase my skills to potential employers. My inital idea is a website/app showing live football scores/ results ect.

Or maybe a cinema showtimes/ film ratings apps. Am i thinking along the right lines of what to make?
 
Bassmansam said:
*bump*

hi guys

I am now about 1/4 of the way through my udemy python course. I am already starting to think what i should build once i have finished to showcase my skills to potential employers. My inital idea is a website/app showing live football scores/ results ect.

Or maybe a cinema showtimes/ film ratings apps. Am i thinking along the right lines of what to make?
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Which course are you currently doing?

What technologies are you thinking of using to build with?

As your talking about Python are you talking about Django and Flask?

At the end of the day build something that interests you.
 
opethdisciple said:
Which course are you currently doing?

What technologies are you thinking of using to build with?

As your talking about Python are you talking about Django and Flask?

At the end of the day build something that interests you.
Click to expand...

https://www.udemy.com/course/complete-python-bootcamp/

Its that course, yea i think i am going to use Django although its still early days for me but from what i have read Django seems fine.
I think i'll go with the scores website/app then.
 
Perhaps check out the non-profit sector. Sometimes it pays slightly less, but they tend to be more willing to accept qualifications over experience or even minimal experiance.

I'm in one and it's great, fairly casual hours and building experience in the areas I like.

EDIT, additional: due to financial constraints, there tends not to be a huge team. So I get experience with all kinds of technologies, not just programming. I've inherited all T-SQL, IIS, MySQL, and many others despite my main role being C# and MVC.
 
Bassmansam said:
Do people think that is the right way to go? My short term goal(next 1-2 years) is to get a job paying around 35k. I am in London by the way.
Click to expand...

It's a way to go, it seems feasible too. Ultimately how you learn best is down to you, your preferences - whether that is books, muddling through the official documentation, short online courses or formal education. Important thing is to get the skills so that when you actually start in your new role you hit the ground running and make a good impression.

35k in London is easy enough to achieve - that was a grad starting salary circa 15 years ago. A 2:2 might block people from some grad schemes but not all, some accountancy firms are quite open to broadening their reach for example. though you're not a recent graduate, which is who these schemes are usually aimed at.

One thing you could do is look at some formal postgrad education - in London you have Birkbeck or indeed many regular unis offering part-time degrees if you can get away for lectures during the day. Online or via distance learning there are places like the OU & Georgia Tech and a few others offering online/distance learning MSc courses (see coursera and udacity - they host some of these). If you have a modular course you can adjust the pace I guess and apply for stuff when you're part way through, it still counts for a bit more if you've got actual credit-bearing courses under your belt rather than the standard MOOC certificates.

The other good thing about an MSc is that you could use the dissertation (if applicable) as a means to a career change - assuming the course has that flexibility then pick the area you're interested in working in and find a relevant dissertation topic. Also, you've made it clear on paper that you're aiming for a new career, if you've just completed an MSc or are part way through with good grades then maybe you can apply for graduate entry at various companies and compensate for the 2:2.
 
dowie said:
It's a way to go, it seems feasible too. Ultimately how you learn best is down to you, your preferences - whether that is books, muddling through the official documentation, short online courses or formal education. Important thing is to get the skills so that when you actually start in your new role you hit the ground running and make a good impression.

35k in London is easy enough to achieve - that was a grad starting salary circa 15 years ago. A 2:2 might block people from some grad schemes but not all, some accountancy firms are quite open to broadening their reach for example. though you're not a recent graduate, which is who these schemes are usually aimed at.

One thing you could do is look at some formal postgrad education - in London you have Birkbeck or indeed many regular unis offering part-time degrees if you can get away for lectures during the day. Online or via distance learning there are places like the OU & Georgia Tech and a few others offering online/distance learning MSc courses (see coursera and udacity - they host some of these). If you have a modular course you can adjust the pace I guess and apply for stuff when you're part way through, it still counts for a bit more if you've got actual credit-bearing courses under your belt rather than the standard MOOC certificates.

The other good thing about an MSc is that you could use the dissertation (if applicable) as a means to a career change - assuming the course has that flexibility then pick the area you're interested in working in and find a relevant dissertation topic. Also, you've made it clear on paper that you're aiming for a new career, if you've just completed an MSc or are part way through with good grades then maybe you can apply for graduate entry at various companies and compensate for the 2:2.
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thanks for your advice. I don’t really want to go down the formal education path to be honest. I was thinking more along the lines of making a couple of web apps/ mobile apps as a portfolio to show employers what i can do. I’m not fussed about grad schemes, any junior role would be ideal for me.
 
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Bassmansam said:
thanks for your advice. I don’t really want to go down the formal education path to be honest. I was thinking more along the lines of making a couple of web apps/ mobile apps as a portfolio to show employers what i can do. I’m not fussed about grad schemes, any junior role would be ideal for me.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, different strokes for different folks and all that... I guess the important thing is to find the way you're most comfortable with learning and transitioning into work etc..

A few hobby projects to demonstrate enthusiasm + your short course + your existing degree + tailor your CV to emphasize the data/MIS aspects of the work you've done already might well be the ticket.

If it's short, unaccredited courses that you're into then Udacity is worth a look too in addition to the above, I guess Udemy is a bit more of an open platform where anyone can put up a course, Udacity is more companies and universities offering short courses (as well as the Georgia Tech MS degree).

They have a thing called a "nanodegree" which is like a few short courses put together with small projects and then a larger capstone project at the end - might be useful to look into as you'd have a bunch of stuff to show and they have a careers service... costs a fair bit more than the typical udemy course though so worth seeing if they have a special offer or discount.

For example, they have a bunch of programming related ones: https://www.udacity.com/school-of-programming

Maybe something like their intermediate python one to follow on from your current udemy course or full-stack web developer or the data engineer ones might be useful:

https://www.udacity.com/course/full-stack-web-developer-nanodegree--nd0044
https://www.udacity.com/course/intermediate-python-nanodegree--nd303
https://www.udacity.com/course/data-engineer-nanodegree--nd027
 
dowie said:
Fair enough, different strokes for different folks and all that... I guess the important thing is to find the way you're most comfortable with learning and transitioning into work etc..

A few hobby projects to demonstrate enthusiasm + your short course + your existing degree + tailor your CV to emphasize the data/MIS aspects of the work you've done already might well be the ticket.

If it's short, unaccredited courses that you're into then Udacity is worth a look too in addition to the above, I guess Udemy is a bit more of an open platform where anyone can put up a course, Udacity is more companies and universities offering short courses (as well as the Georgia Tech MS degree).

They have a thing called a "nanodegree" which is like a few short courses put together with small projects and then a larger capstone project at the end - might be useful to look into as you'd have a bunch of stuff to show and they have a careers service... costs a fair bit more than the typical udemy course though so worth seeing if they have a special offer or discount.

For example, they have a bunch of programming related ones: https://www.udacity.com/school-of-programming

Maybe something like their intermediate python one to follow on from your current udemy course or full-stack web developer or the data engineer ones might be useful:

https://www.udacity.com/course/full-stack-web-developer-nanodegree--nd0044
https://www.udacity.com/course/intermediate-python-nanodegree--nd303
https://www.udacity.com/course/data-engineer-nanodegree--nd027
Click to expand...

thank you for all of that.

I will have a look into udacity. Also i had a rethink about the university route, i’ve had a look at the OU and the possibilty of doing a post grad diploma/msc in computing, turns out a couple of modules i am interested in start next May so i have registered my interest in those.

Lets see how i get on between now and then.
 
Bassmansam said:
I will have a look into udacity. Also i had a rethink about the university route, i’ve had a look at the OU and the possibilty of doing a post grad diploma/msc in computing, turns out a couple of modules i am interested in start next May so i have registered my interest in those.
Click to expand...

That's probably a good call, looks like there is a bit of flexibility in that program. some MSc programs will be 12 months full time or 24 months part-time, that one is modular, adjust the pace as you like.

Looks like quite a few of the modules are rather applied/vocational and some follow the syllabus of some industry certs or standards - like the networking module seems to be training for the CCNP qualification.
 
dowie said:
@Bassmansam maybe take a look at @Burnsy2023 's thread here, slightly below your 35k goal but it seems to be aimed at someone who has done a short course/hobby projects:

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...software-engineering-trainees-again.18933166/
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i’ve started the application process including putting code i wrote( on my course)for a game of tic tac toe on github. Just need to polish my
CV and finish my covering letter now.

Only problem is is that the job is in Southampton and i live in SE London. Now it does say that its part wfh part office which is nice. For the days that i would be in the office , assuming thats 2-3 days a week i think i would stay in a hotel as the journey door to door is 3 hours which would be insane. I think its worth doing though as its a great opportunity to kick start my career. I do have a gf but no kids so yea i think its very doable.

Of course i have to actually get the job first but i’m just thinking about what i would do if i did get it.
 
Yeah, dealing with Excel tables after 8+ years of programming education is a little sad. Even I can write a few basic Macros. So what I thought about, was maybe you could try your skills in iOS or Android apps programming? Their salaries are high and the niche has good perspectives.
 
RallyMotor said:
Yeah, dealing with Excel tables after 8+ years of programming education is a little sad. Even I can write a few basic Macros. So what I thought about, was maybe you could try your skills in iOS or Android apps programming? Their salaries are high and the niche has good perspectives.
Click to expand...

yea i guess once i got my first job i gradually forgot about what i studied and just focused on living life now that i had 1k disposable cash a month. I got to 28k in my last job so whilst not great money it wasn’t terrible. Its only on my current job where i use sql that i’ve had the lightbulb moment to get back into
programming.

Yeah i could do phone apps but i’ll finish my python course and make something in that first.

i didn’t study programming for 8 years where did you get that idea? My degree was 3 years.
 
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