Cat e cabling and setup query

[brainfry]

I’ve just moved into a 4 story property and currently have master socket on ground floor, Vodafone hub connected there with 3 netgear x6 range extenders on each floor for Wi-Fi.
The top floor office is where I need a good connection and it’s not great.
Ive just realised that there is cat e cabling in the property with Ethernet ports in the rooms. I’ve found out that the cabling leads to a white box on the ground floor in a cupboard under the stairs which has a telephone point underneath it.
Apparently this telephone point used to be master socket but the master socket has now been moved to another room on the same floor.
I’m not 100% wether it’s ever been used for internet connection or wether it was just for telephone connections (house is about 15yrs old if that makes any difference)

How do I set up /reconnect the cat e ?

 

[d_brennen]

Pic of where all the cables terminate?

 

[brainfry]

Still working out how to add a pic

 

[d_brennen]

If you're lucky and its a patch panel, great news! If it's been used for telephones but is cat 5 they might not have used all the pairs in the cable. Might still be usable in that case with some fettling

 

[brainfry]

https://flic.kr/p/2raG4kX

This is the cupboard I’ve been told the cables lead to.
There is also a very complicated looking fire alarm panel and house alarm in the property so I’m not sure if this box would be connected in any way to that…

 

[NetMan]

It's not impossible that someone has stuck a desktop switch inside a box but there is a label on the bottom saying the battery was changed in 2019.

My guess is that box contains an 12v SLA battery and charger for one or both of your alarm systems.

The fused spur under the box is probably for the battery charger turning it off might trigger your alarm; its probably safe to open the box without turning it off but you don't know who installed it and if they bodged it so play safe and turn it off if you open it to check. There might also be a tamper sensor that triggers the alarm when the box is opened.

Not sure of the typical service life on an SLA alarm battery but it might need changing soon.



The double patress box was probably an old twin mains socket and still has a live 240v cable feeding the spur so don't open that without isolating / checking for 240.



The old phone sockets are probably daisy chained from each other to the top floor i.e. so the phone rang in all the rooms at the same time but you need to open the face plate to check.

You could potentially splice the cable with appropiate network connectors so you ended up with a single cat5e between that socket and the one on the top floor with any extras disconnected but I wouldn't bother because it adds too many points of failure.

It would be better to just run a new cable from your router to the upper floor and if running one cable to the top floor for a PC I'd probably run extra at the same time so you could add access points etc on other floors if they were needed later on.

 

[brainfry]

Thankyou @NetMan

That’s clarified a lot
I did worry about the alarm going off!
On the info you’ve given I’m going to get someone out to look at it so Thankyou.

Couple of things I want to ask- the Ethernet ports in the rooms- are these used for telephones?

And also - running a cable to the top may be tricky, may have to run it up eternally, but is an option I’ll look at as I know it will be the best option, but wanted to ask - with my current equipment - Vodafone hub,
a netgear ex7700 router set up in AP mode and 3 netgear x6 range extender mesh, what would be the best way to set these up to cover the property.
Pic shows set up

https://flic.kr/p/2raRqan

 

[NetMan]

You could take the faceplates off the phone / network sockets and post some pics but its hard to tell if you can't trace the wires; I don't think they go into that white box, it would only take a couple of mins for you to switch the power off and open it and you can reset the alarm if it goes off.

I haven't used extenders but if the signal isn't great you would be better with a cable to each floor; its hard to tell every building is different a new build could be metal clad, have foil insulation, underfloor heating etc and an old build likely has thick brick walls to contend with.

 

[hawker1986]

Have you considered a powerline extender using the houses wiring. Will be easier than running Ethernet and inexpensive. But it depends what sort of bandwidth you are looking for and the quality of the wiring in the house.

 

[Sparx]

I would look behind that double socket with the blanking plate on, if the Cat5/6 leads terminate within.

The larger box is almost certainly going to be for the alarm panel, it'll have a tamper sensor and trigger your alarm if you open the lid on it.

 

[NetMan]

I would look behind that double socket with the blanking plate on, if the Cat5/6 leads terminate within.

I would have already gone round with my screw driver and opened everything up to trace the wires but there could well be a 240v twin and earth cable behind that double blank face plate.


1. Its an old phone circuit and they are daisy chained from the master socket.

2. They run somewhere completely different i.e. up into the loft.

3. They run between two sockets e.g. there’s a socket in the front room and the other end is a socket in one of the bedrooms. We don’t even know how many sockets there are or which rooms they are in.

4. There are cables behind that double socket but bizarrely they only terminated one end of the cables.

5. They do indeed run into that old box and the sticker is a red herring and was left on when they had a new alarm fitted.

 

[brainfry]

Thankyou all for your help

Ok so an update
We got openreach out and they moved the master socket back to where it was originally - in the cupboard.
The router has been moved in there and the small box is where all the Ethernet cables are which lead to all the room sockets.
So Yey!

Im now waiting for my switch to arrive so I can plug all the cables in there.

But I still have a problem with connection to Wi-Fi throughout the house. All the Ethernet ports are at the front of the property so I was thinking connect the net gear x6 mesh extenders through the Ethernet ports and it would boost Wi-Fi throughout …?
But ive tried plugging them in but they don’t seem to work - I think they still need to able to connect to the main hub via Wi-Fi - which of course they can’t as they’re too far away….
Is there a way to use these and change some setting…?

 

[NetMan]

the small box is where all the Ethernet cables ar

The one that looks like a double socket?

Have they got RJ45 crimps on the cables then or have you fitted RJ45 sockets?

Have you tested them to make sure they are terminated correctly and all work e.g. plug a laptop (with WiFi turned off) into the socket and connect the other end to the router in the cupboard?

Im now waiting for my switch to arrive so I can plug all the cables in there.

Can't they plug straight into the router thats now in the cupboard or doesn't it have enough ports?

connect the net gear x6 mesh extenders through the Ethernet ports and it would boost Wi-Fi throughout

Yes to a point, the signal won't have to go through the floors back to the Netgear router but if you have internal brick partitions and its a big house you might need to think about repositioning some of the X6 eg move the one so its in the TV room.

I think they still need to able to connect to the main hub via Wi-Fi

Your setup confused me a bit because you had the ISP router downstairs, the X6 units on the other floors and both a Netgear router and an X6 on the top floor.

I've not used these but when I looked them up it suggested

1. You don't need a Netgear router to use the x6 units they can connect to an ISP router
2. The X6 units have an access point mode so you can cable them instead of using them in a mesh
3. The X6 units have each got 2 LAN ports

https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/EX7700/EX7700_UM_EN.pdf

Page 15 = using them in access point mode but you might need to reset them first.


There's a potential issue with using 2 routers because it creates double NAT from what I read most things would work but games consoles and a few other things can have problems.

If possible I would use your Netgear Router instead of your ISP router in the cupboard (assuming it has more features and Vodafone lets you use your own router?)
Edit: scrub that its DSL isn't it so you won't be able to plug it directly into your router?
I don't know if there is something similar to modem mode that Virgin have on their routers which would stop double NAT.
Or you should be able to use the X6 units without the netgear router by connecting them to the ISP router (I think!).


Then I would use the X6 units in Access point mode on the other floors.

The floor with the TV with poor reception I would consider moving the X6 to that room if you can run a cable from where the socket is; another option would be to use the second socket on the X6 and run a cable from that to the TV if it supports a wired connection.

 

[Sparx]

Ok so an update
We got openreach out and they moved the master socket back to where it was originally - in the cupboard.
The router has been moved in there and the small box is where all the Ethernet cables are which lead to all the room sockets.
So Yey!

The one I said to check?

 

[brainfry]

The one that looks like a double socket?

Have they got RJ45 crimps on the cables then or have you fitted RJ45 sockets?

Have you tested them to make sure they are terminated correctly and all work e.g. plug a laptop (with WiFi turned off) into the socket and connect the other end to the router in the cupboard?


Can't they plug straight into the router thats now in the cupboard or doesn't it have enough ports?


Yes to a point, the signal won't have to go through the floors back to the Netgear router but if you have internal brick partitions and its a big house you might need to think about repositioning some of the X6 eg move the one so its in the TV room.




Your setup confused me a bit because you had the ISP router downstairs, the X6 units on the other floors and both a Netgear router and an X6 on the top floor.

I've not used these but when I looked them up it suggested

1. You don't need a Netgear router to use the x6 units they can connect to an ISP router
2. The X6 units have an access point mode so you can cable them instead of using them in a mesh
3. The X6 units have each got 2 LAN ports

https://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/EX7700/EX7700_UM_EN.pdf

Page 15 = using them in access point mode but you might need to reset them first.


There's a potential issue with using 2 routers because it creates double NAT from what I read most things would work but games consoles and a few other things can have problems.

If possible I would use your Netgear Router instead of your ISP router in the cupboard (assuming it has more features and Vodafone lets you use your own router?)
Edit: scrub that its DSL isn't it so you won't be able to plug it directly into your router?
I don't know if there is something similar to modem mode that Virgin have on their routers which would stop double NAT.
Or you should be able to use the X6 units without the netgear router by connecting them to the ISP router (I think!).


Then I would use the X6 units in Access point mode on the other floors.

The floor with the TV with poor reception I would consider moving the X6 to that room if you can run a cable from where the socket is; another option would be to use the second socket on the X6 and run a cable from that to the TV if it supports a wired connection.

They all have Ethernet plug on the cables that are in the box - my isp Vodafone router only has 3 Ethernet ports so that is why I’ve ordered a switch.

I put the net gear router on the top floor and set it in AP mode only so that it could be connected via Ethernet cable to a pc because the x6’s weren’t working.

I keep getting kicked out the internet on my Wi-Fi devices - is this the double nat issue?
Wired is fine - connection to the top floor pc has been absolutely fine on Ethernet connection via the netgear router and Wi-Fi up there is fine through that. But go one floor down and try and connect to any Vodafone Wi-Fi connection and it’s *****.

 

[NetMan]

I keep getting kicked out the internet on my Wi-Fi devices - is this the double nat issue?

No, that sounds like it is dropping the signal.

But go one floor down and try and connect to any Vodafone Wi-Fi connection and it’s *****

They need to be wired to the router and configured as access points instead of mesh mode / repeaters.

I put the net gear router on the top floor and set it in AP mode

If it is in access point mode then you aren't using double NAT; if it was setup as a router and you connected it to your ISP router that would be double NAT.

What is double NAT and why is it bad?

Double NAT occurs when you connect a router to an ISP gateway or another router.

kb.netgear.com

How do I fix problems caused by my NETGEAR Orbi or Nighthawk router connected to an ISP gateway?

If your NETGEAR Orbi or Nighthawk router is connected to an ISP gateway or other router, this might cause double NAT problems. Here are some solutions to fix those issues.

kb.netgear.com

1. "We recommend that you remove the first router for best network performance."
Unless your netgear router has a DSL port you can't do this.

2. " If you can’t remove the first router, check its capabilities to see if it supports bridge mode. Most NETGEAR and Orbi routers support bridge mode, but routers from other brands might not."
ISP routers generally aren't very good so if it does support bridge mode I would set that on your ISP router then put your Netgear router in the cupboard.

3. "If you can’t remove the first router or put it in bridge mode, you must put your Orbi or Nighthawk router in AP mode. Some router features are disabled in AP mode."
This is what you are currently doing; I would probably just turn it off and use the three X6's once they have been reconfigured, if the signal is still weak in the room with the TV after the X6's are wired to the router and setup in access point mode you could try using the Netgear router as an AP in you office and have two wired X6's on the floor with the TV.




First check whether your ISP router has a bridge mode option.

If your ISP router doesn't support bridge mode then you will need to connect the X6's to the ISP router.

If your ISP router does support bridge mode enable that, configure your Netgear router as the new router in the cupboard then plug the X6's into the Netgear router.


After sorting out the routers factory reset the three X6 units, follow the instructions on P15 of the netgear PDF I posted before where it tells you how to configure them in access point mode.

 

[brainfry]

Thankyou

I think I’m going to ditch the Vodafone router - I keep getting password error or it’s dropping connection on WiFi devices.
I’m looking for another netgear router that I can use with dsl - just getting a second hand one for now any recommendations?

Also I can’t login to the x6 mesh - it’s coming up with a error message saying you are not connected to your extenders Wi-Fi network -

I’ve had a blue screen pc today,(not related obviously to my internet issues) my switch I bought doesn’t seem to connect any of the Ethernet cables in the cupboard and my laptop won’t connect at all to the Vodafone hub Wi-Fi - so truly F’d off

 

[NetMan]

Also I can’t login to the x6 mesh - it’s coming up with a error message saying you are not connected to your extenders Wi-Fi network -

Did you reset them? I think the PDF said you have to be in range of the router when you configure them but then you can move them. I've not used them but when I looked them up it did imply that you could connect them to any router not just another Netgear.

I’ve had a blue screen pc today,(not related obviously to my internet issues) my switch I bought doesn’t seem to connect any of the Ethernet cables in the cupboard and my laptop won’t connect at all to the Vodafone hub Wi-Fi - so truly F’d off

Is the cupboard blocking the WiFi signal from the Vodafone hub i.e. if you sit in the cupboard with your laptop does it work ok but then drops outside the cupboad when you close the door?

If it does (I'm assumming its on the ground floor) you might need to add an access point somewhere on the ground floor that sits outside the cupboard.

I wouldn't buy another DSL router until you've checked because it could have the same problem.

Does the Vodafone have have bridge mode so you can connect your Netgear router without double NAT?



If you have tested each floor socket is working by plugging one end into your vodafone router and the other into your laptop then that suggests the wiring is ok...

So the switch issue seems odd it should just be a case of plugging one port into your router and then hooking up the cables that run to the sockets, maybe you just got unlucky and its a bad switch, did you try different patch cables in case you've got a bad one?

All modern equipment should support auto MDI-X so it shouldn't need a cross over cable between the switch and router but you could pick one up for a few £ if you wanted to try one before sending your switch back or buying a new router.