Cheaper E46 diesels - bad idea?

iaind

iaind

iaind

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I'm fairly sure the answer is going to be "yes" but thought I'd ask just in case I was mising something obvious.

I posted a while ago about switching to a diesel due to a new job which involved more mileage. I came to the conclusion that spending 4k on top of the value of my IS200 wasn't the best way to save money so left being quite keen on the idea of an LPG conversion. However, I realised that's still ploughing a grand at my current car in order to save money so thought about selling mine and just buying something of the same value. I put an advert up and have had a fair bit of interest, should have about 3k to spend. Current preference is the a4 1.9 tdi, found some really nice examples of those and the PD engine should be pretty reliable.

However, I've also come across a few tidy looking e46 diesels - but would these really save me much money over my current car? I know there are potential issues with swirl flaps and turbos. I've found a 2005 320d touring with 84k miles within budget which seems too cheap! But it's a later model so should be less prone to turbo or swirl flap issues.

There's also a 2002 330d manual saloon just around the corner with 114k miles. That's got to be a money pit, right?

Talk me out of it, please!
 
Unless you're able and willing to spend significant sums of money relative to the value of the car maintaining and potentially fixing them or were happy to write off the difference in value between a working and broken car when selling on then it's a bad idea imo. If you were willing to spend that bit extra on maintenance and a fix fund then it pretty much negates the need for the diesel version.

Don't get me wrong we have had several e39 530d's in the family which have been run to 130k+ and been nothing short of flawless BUT the cars were far newer at the time

The VAG PD is a better bet tbh.
 
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jellybeard999 said:
Unless the change in mileage is massive, keeping your current car normally works out the cheapest option, if that's your only motivation. Have you done the sums?
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Yep. As I said I'm putting no more/a minimal amount on top of what I get for mine. So I'm nothing out of pocket and save 50% on fuel, insurance and tax.

Anyway. This wasn't a question of finances, it was a specific query about the e46 3 series
 
Best ask paradigm - in the last year of ownership has 330d began to become comically expensive. This is the same car NickXX ran flawlessly for 3 years so be careful of glowing reports of how totally reliable they are - they were when much newer! They are, IMHO, just too complicated to be worth the bother unless you are happy with the expense and if thats the case then why a diesel?

If I wanted a cheaper diesel I'd be looking at something with the VAG 1.9 TDI engine in it I think. The lower power ones are qiute reliable.

Actually the very early E46 320d's - the 136bhp ones - are not that bad either. But they are going to be 12ish years old now so bring with them all the usual 12 year old car faff.
 
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As Fox said really, they can throw up some large bills. Although to be fair so can a low mileage one, just the odds increase as the age does.

If you can find one with a documented turbo/injectors/clutch change then I'd probably go for one seeing as you'll get a number of years out of it without much more than consumables, but if there is no history of these being done, prepare yourself for a number of four figure bills (unless you can do the work yourself, I swapped the turbo myself) just to keep the car running.

Great cars, but expensive to run sans warranty.
 
I think it is good that all 'possible' bills are highlighted so you know what potentially you can face in the future.

However reading things that are being said about diesel ownership in general I am finding a little extreme.

Diesels can suffer from expensive dual mass flywheel failure, DMF, turbo's and injectors. However there are many thousands out there that achieve good mileage without all these failures.

I have owned three modern diesels, 2 company cars and one my own. I have never suffered any of the failures above. My own car that has just hit 67k and 4 years old has just come up with an EGR valve problem. The part I have sourced for £132 pounds.

My father however had a clutch destroy itself on a Peugeot 407 1.6HDi, it destroyed the DMF and would have cost him £1200 if it wasn't under warranty. The saving he makes in fuel however is amazing compared to a petrol Mondeo on the high mileage he does.
 
Thanks guys, as I expected - A4 1.9 130 I think is the safe choice here. Wanting as much disposable income to go into savings for a bigger house as possible without sacrificing too much spec and comfort - seems to be a safe bet
 
Third Opinion said:
I think it is good that all 'possible' bills are highlighted so you know what potentially you can face in the future.

However reading things that are being said about diesel ownership in general I am finding a little extreme.

Diesels can suffer from expensive dual mass flywheel failure, DMF, turbo's and injectors. However there are many thousands out there that achieve good mileage without all these failures.

I have owned three modern diesels, 2 company cars and one my own. I have never suffered any of the failures above. My own car that has just hit 67k and 4 years old has just come up with an EGR valve problem. The part I have sourced for £132 pounds.

My father however had a clutch destroy itself on a Peugeot 407 1.6HDi, it destroyed the DMF and would have cost him £1200 if it wasn't under warranty. The saving he makes in fuel however is amazing compared to a petrol Mondeo on the high mileage he does.
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Whilst you're correct, its the risk factor that is the issue for me - even fairly mundane issues can cost a significant amount on modern diesels too. I just had to change a little vacuum valve and filter on my own car, I can do most of this myself so actual cost to me was circa £100 but lets say you had to get some diagnostics done to find the fault, £60 minimum, parts 100, Honda labour I have no doubt would be about another 100 - So close to £300 of your hard earned on a pretty simple fault thats common with the ictdi engine.

Injectors are funny money and again. if you had to pay honda or anyone else really it's bend over time. That's on what is one of the better modern diesels, not that the 6 cylinder BMW unit.is bad, far from it but I just think the pd engine is a far safer bet.

Of course you could need 3 new tyres within 10 months due to punctures at 120 quid a tyre which is just upsetting (yes I've just done the 3rd, bloody 6 month old tyre too), cant be predicted and will blow any planned running costs you have out of the water
 
rodenal said:
Whilst you're correct, its the risk factor that is the issue for me - even fairly mundane issues can cost a significant amount on modern diesels too. I just had to change a little vacuum valve and filter on my own car, I can do most of this myself so actual cost to me was circa £100 but lets say you had to get some diagnostics done to find the fault, £60 minimum, parts 100, Honda labour I have no doubt would be about another 100 - So close to £300 of your hard earned on a pretty simple fault thats common with the ictdi engine.

Injectors are funny money and again. if you had to pay honda or anyone else really it's bend over time. That's on what is one of the better modern diesels, not that the 6 cylinder BMW unit.is bad, far from it but I just think the pd engine is a far safer bet.

Of course you could need 3 new tyres within 10 months due to punctures at 120 quid a tyre which is just upsetting (yes I've just done the 3rd, bloody 6 month old tyre too), cant be predicted and will blow any planned running costs you have out of the water
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Any car is a risk financially, as you say it's all about weighing up probability and whether it's worth the gamble.

As fox rightly said, there's no point running something that's quite likely to cost you big time when the point is cost saving. If I wanted to spend more money and not compromise as much, I'd probably keep my current car. I just need something to chew up the miles in relative comfort at minimal cost, I think my A4 idea is pretty spot on
 
Nothing wrong with the 130PS 1.9PD engine at all. The 150PS variant was a little too highly strung IMO and caused a lot more premature failures than the 130.

Should get a relatively nice B6 A4 for £3k.
 
paradigm said:
Nothing wrong with the 130PS 1.9PD engine at all. The 150PS variant was a little too highly strung IMO and caused a lot more premature failures than the 130.

Should get a relatively nice B6 A4 for £3k.
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Indeed, nothing remarkable and still a diesel but seem perfectly capable.

Glad a few people mentioned the 150 and I've been able to do some more research as they did appeal. Don't think they put the 150 in the a4 but I was keen on the toledo sport. Will scrub them off and stick with 130 engined cars.

While I'm in here, sidetracking a bit but no point starting a new thread.... Seen a few a4s/passats etc with auto boxes. Have been avoiding them due to economy (10mpg less on the spec figures) and potential for problems. So 3 things really - do you actually lose that much economy, are they solid auto boxes and are they likely to be terrible to drive?
 
They are smooth enough boxes (going from the ones I've driven, although these were back when the B6 was a new platform), and seemed well mated to the 1.9PD, but I've got no comparison for MPG over the manual box as I never really cared what MPG someone elses car was getting :p
 
Fair enough, just never driven an auto diesel - wasn't sure how they'd act with diesel power delivery.

It just seemed odd that you'd lose any economy on a motorway run, unless the gearing is significantly different. Just looked on autotrader to find the car I was keen on and spotted at least 3 "multitronic" A4s with gearbox issues....maybe avoid them then!

This one looks promising though
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...ds/sport/postcode/ex25aa/radius/200?logcode=p
 
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Turbo died on mine at nigh on 70k miles (Leon tdi150). I think it's a reasonably common time for them to go (judging by forums) but all depends on how driven. The turbo people told me I'd not cooled the car down properly but I'd been steady driving at 20-40mph for the last 5 miles of my journey, so I'm more inclined to think it was just time for it to go. Friend fitted turbo for me. Biggest faff was getting all the gaskets and bolts together from VW. They are hardly rare engines but most of it was wait for stuff.

The Toledo 150 isn't a quick car but that might just have been the 20k miler I drove. These engines loosen up at 30k and around 50k I found, with big jumps in mpg and throttle response. Mine at 78k still isn't as good on fuel as the wife's 110k mile bora was.
 
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