Christianity and Creationism - some clarification

spudbynight

spudbynight

spudbynight

Soldato
Joined
8 Nov 2006
Posts
7,587
Location
Ireland/Northern Ireland Border
This is something which I have seen on these forums several times. There seems to be a misconception held by several OcUKers that literal Creationism is a widely held belief by the major Christian faiths in the UK. It is often used as a casual slur and I wanted to give some clarity.

The literal "God created the world in 7 days" form of creationism is not a widely held belief of the major Christian religions in the world.

Catholicism, the largest Christian Church has this to say on the matter :

Pope John Paul II said:
"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.... Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
Click to expand...

The Church of England espouses a similar viewpoint. Although I haven't been able to find a specific quote from a General Synod this piece from the Manchester Diocese is worth reading.

It isn't just a UK position. In the United States over 12000 clergy of various Christian denominations have signed up to the Clergy Letter.

The Clergy Letter - from American Christian clergy – An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science Within the community of Christian believers there are areas of dispute and disagreement, including the proper way to interpret Holy Scripture. While virtually all Christians take the Bible seriously and hold it to be authoritative in matters of faith and practice, the overwhelming majority do not read the Bible literally, as they would a science textbook. Many of the beloved stories found in the Bible – the Creation, Adam and Eve, Noah and the ark – convey timeless truths about God, human beings, and the proper relationship between Creator and creation expressed in the only form capable of transmitting these truths from generation to generation. Religious truth is of a different order from scientific truth. Its purpose is not to convey scientific information but to transform hearts. We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as "one theory among others" is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God's good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God's loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.
Click to expand...

Christianity happily coexists with science. One of my favorite facts is that the Big Bang Theory was actually put forward by a Catholic priest.
 
The literal "God created the world in 7 days" form of creationism is not a widely held belief of the major Christian religions in the world.
Click to expand...
Yes it is, have you ever been to America?
There are creationists everywhere, 4/10 Americans are creationists.
 
I think once you start 'interpreting' the Bible to such an extent that you discard pieces of it one has to question the literal validity of the entire thing. It's fine as a set of moral teachings that one can pick and choose the 'good ones' to live by, but they will almost certainly just be the human moralities of the day. That sort of renders it all a bit pointless.
 
RomanNose said:
Yes it is, have you ever been to America?
There are creationists everywhere, 4/10 Americans are creationists.
Click to expand...

I did say major and world. Yes, there are American "house churches" where a lone individual puts his own spin on things. I don't really have a lot of time for them.
 
PMKeates said:
I think once you start 'interpreting' the Bible to such an extent that you discard pieces of it one has to question the literal validity of the entire thing. It's fine as a set of moral teachings that one can pick and choose the 'good ones' to live by, but they will almost certainly just be the human moralities of the day. That sort of renders it all a bit pointless.
Click to expand...

I think that is another topic all together. I just wanted to clarify the misunderstanding held by many OcUKers around Christianity and science.
 
spudbynight said:
Thanks for your input.

Can you find me something from a major Christian church in America that denounces evolution?
Click to expand...

The problem with that is that most of their dominations are not specifically organised, they are not like the catholic church or church of England where there is some sort of leadership.
With religion there are just different degrees of crazy, if you are not a literalist you still probably believe something equally crazy such as water being able to be turned into wine. So there is not really many things Christians can hide behind.
You may laugh at creationists, but to an outsider we both think you are insane.
 
Last edited:
RomanNose said:
The problem with that is that most of their dominations are not specifically organised, they are not like the catholic church or church of England where there is some sort of leadership.
With religion there are just different degrees of crazy, if you are not a literalist you still probably believe something equally crazy such as water being able to be turned into wine. So there is not really many things Christians can hide behind.
You may laugh at creationists, but to an outsider we both think you are insane.
Click to expand...

I'm not convinced that you're qualified to speak for all those outside of religion, I'm not religious but I don't necessarily think or state that those who are, are insane. I'm certain there are some who are insane and can properly be defined thus but equally I know that there are a lot of people who aren't religious who are also insane.

Scrutinize said:
A lot of Christians, especially if you look to the Evangelical/Baptists, would argue that Catholicism isn't actually Christianity.
Click to expand...

It has Christianity as its roots, theological interpretational differences aside it's not difficult to class it under the general umbrella of Christianity.
 
spudbynight said:
Thanks for your input.

Can you find me something from a major Christian church in America that denounces evolution?
Click to expand...

Jehovah's Witness, Evangelicals, Baptists... what proof do you want?

To most of the Christians the idea of evolution is absurd. Equally absurd is the Scientific fact that the planet is 3 billion years old.

Nut jobs? I think so but each to their own.
 
Last edited:
RomanNose said:
Yes it is, have you ever been to America?
There are creationists everywhere, 4/10 Americans are creationists.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in America, and no, creationists are not everywhere, they are like many minorities, simply more vocal.

Not unlike Militant Atheists in Europe.

As far as Genesis being allegorical, this as been an accepted doctrine in Catholicism and within the Early Christian Churches since before the Nicene councils. Augustine of Hippo wrote extensively regarding this very concept.

Literal Evangelism is relatively new and has very little basis in actual Scripture.
 
Edinho said:
Jehovah's Witness, Evangelicals, Baptists... what proof do you want?
Click to expand...

Jehovah Witness' are not regarded as a mainstream major Christian Church, Evangelical Churches are not all Literal Conservative in nature or considered a major unified Church either (many are only Churches in name, not in recognition) and Baptists, unless led by the resurgent Conservative Literalism are not Literalist either, ( there is a current schism in the SBC between liberal and conservative viewpoints)

There is significant difference between fundamentalist conservative literalism in American pastor led churches and what Spudbynight was referring to as Major Christian Faith.
 
Last edited:
The 7 days is rediculuse anyway and any Christian believing 7days hasn't research and tested their faith.
No where in the "original"texts does it say time. It simply says period, with no relation or clue of a time frame.
 
Castiel said:
Literal Evangelism is relatively new and has very little basis in actual Scripture.
Click to expand...

The scriptures say man was created from Adam and God created Adam therefore evolution is complete rubbish. Believing word for word the bible is the only correct word is nothing new.
 
For hundreds of years people took the Bible literally.

Science came along and proved that creationism is false.

Why would God do such a thing? If he knew the truth why did he lie?

1. Accept that the Bible is just a book, written by humans.
2. Wake up and smell the roses. You can remain spiritual without believing any old tripe.
3. ????
4. Prophet.
 
Glaucus said:
The 7 days is rediculuse anyway and any Christian believing 7days hasn't research and tested their faith.
No where in the "original"texts does it say time. It simply says period, with no relation or clue of a time frame.
Click to expand...

Of course it is tell that to the JWs and all the others, who will tell you when the bile says days that's what it means.
 
Edinho said:
Of course it is tell that to the JWs and all the others, who will tell you when the bile says days that's what it means.
Click to expand...

Lol, just because some groups believe it doesn't make it so.
Just like you have wrong impressions of the bible, doesn't make you right.
The modern bible is filled with translation errors and any Christian who actuallys tests and researches their faith will know this and will seek out the real translation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom